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Old 05-07-2012, 05:22 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
8,387 posts, read 8,659,530 times
Reputation: 4070

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
Since the 1980s, it seems to me that we have seen a relentless series of tax cuts of various types, but especially for those at the top. Now that we are running a deficit, folks who want to balance the budget with some revenue options (back to, say, 1990s tax and spending levels) are considered socialists and communists. How can after 15 steps to the right 2 steps to the left be a socialist revolution?

My wife thinks it is pure political mud slinging (say the most outrageous thing you can get by with and hope it sticks). Is she right?
I think we have socialism for the wealthy and capitalism for the rest of us.
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Old 05-07-2012, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,932 posts, read 4,069,646 times
Reputation: 3883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
This thread is long on silliness and short on facts.

The IRS reports that there were 236,883 tax-payers in 2009 who earned more than $1 Million. They earned a total of $727 Billion.

Let's tax that $727 Billion at 91%, then:

$727 Billion * 0.91 = $661 Billion.

In 2010, Social Security paid out $701 Billion in benefits, so taxing "the rich" at 91% wouldn't even pay for 1 year's worth of Social Security.

Do you dispute that?

If so, then please show your math. In other words, quit talkin' and start chalkin'.

Let's look at Social Security a little more closely. Many people are under the false and misguided impression that eliminating the cap on earnings will solve the problems of Social Security (and Medicare).

Let's look at that. Calling the cap $110,000 for easier math, those 236,883 people pay 6.2% on $110,000 or:

$110,000 * 6.02% * 236,883 = $1,568,639,226 or $1.5 Billion

If we eliminate the cap then:

$727 Billion * 6.02% = 43,765,400,000 or $42.7 Billion.

There's your Shipment of Fail.

$42.7 Billion will not fix the problem when the problem is a short-fall of $350 Billion. So is going to choke up the other $307 Billion. And how are you going to do that? When the stupid FICA tax holiday ends and the rate goes back to 6.02% you'll have to raise the rate to 9.02% and then you'll raise the FICA rate 0.6% every year through the year 2040.

Uh, well, I'm just assuming you want Social Security, and that you want more than $790/month. How much will a one-bedroom rent for in 2040 where you live? If you own your home lock, stock and barrel, how much do you think your property taxes, utilities, cable, water, natural gas for heat, etc etc will be?

How are the States going to collect sales tax on $42.7 Billion when that money is going straight to Social Security?

Oh, sorry, I forgot, you State doesn't need no stinking sales tax receipts, right? Whenever your city, county or State needs money, it just falls out of the sky, doesn't it?

Daily Job Cuts - Layoff News , Job Layoffs 2012 / 2011 , Bankruptcy, Store closings, Business Economy News

Look at the lay-offs and closing for March, April and May. There are no school districts, cities, counties or States laying off or terminating employees, correct?

I'm not saying you should or shouldn't raise taxes, I'm simply proving that it is not a panacea; that it will not solve your problems; and that it could make things worse; and create more problems, especially at the State and local levels.

"Austerity" is a reality. At this point, you can voluntarily implement "austerity" plans to stave off financial disasters in the future, or you can do nothing at all and then "austerity" will be forced upon you involuntarily whether you want it or not. If you people cannot handle even mild Cost Inflation without the hand-wringing and gouging out of eyes and pulling out of hair and gnashing of teeth and putting on sack-cloth, then I don't know what you're going to do when Real Inflation is running at 35%-45% annually about 12 year from now.

I imagine there will be a "Real Inflation Sticky Thread" at the top of this forum for all of the weak-knee'd whiners. "My god, my natural gas bill, electric bill, cable bill, cell-phone bill, internet bill, auto insurance, home-owner's insurance, trash-pick-up, water bill, etc etc etc etc etc etc has doubled!" Um, no kidding. Which part of Real Inflation did you not understand?

Relentlessly...

Mircea
Where did you get that 300B shortfall from? Everything I've seen about the SS & Medicare deficits puts it in the 45 - 60B range. Addressing funding is the best way to stave off fears for the indefinite future. Raising FICA rates is the next best solution. Restructuring payouts shouldn't even be on the table, considering how meager they are to begin with.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
23,013 posts, read 28,944,821 times
Reputation: 6875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
Well perhaps the Reagan Revolution is responsible. All that money piling up at the top has fueled a tsunami of rightwing propaganda. Now, just running our own country with reference to facts and basic math, not antitax pledges, has become a sinister plot.
No, the only thing the Reagan Revolution was responsible for was a prosperous decade (of which uninformed liberals think of as "greed").
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:23 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,876 posts, read 13,690,597 times
Reputation: 5224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
Since the 1980s, it seems to me that we have seen a relentless series of tax cuts of various types, but especially for those at the top. Now that we are running a deficit, folks who want to balance the budget with some revenue options (back to, say, 1990s tax and spending levels) are considered socialists and communists. How can after 15 steps to the right 2 steps to the left be a socialist revolution?

My wife thinks it is pure political mud slinging (say the most outrageous thing you can get by with and hope it sticks). Is she right?

I dont want tax cuts, I want tax abolition, and the repealiing of the 16th Amendment.
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Old 09-10-2014, 05:48 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
86,056 posts, read 79,216,730 times
Reputation: 88399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
So lets find ways to lower taxes for the staff.
Some can't stand to see people keep their own money.
And others can't stand to see infrastructure crumble nationwide (to say nothing of investment in new and improved infrastructure), investment in medical research curtailed, federal and state workers furloughed, social security and medicare cut, grants to support higher education for economically marginal students cut back, and political instability increase due to an increasingly economically polarized population.
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Old 09-10-2014, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
33,022 posts, read 20,162,895 times
Reputation: 19807
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/...36_11575_11979

We don't have a revenue problem...we have a spending problem. The chart is per capita spending in fixed dollars. Only someone with a single digit IQ can think that this is sustainable.
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Old 09-10-2014, 06:32 PM
 
34,638 posts, read 18,832,824 times
Reputation: 16231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
And others can't stand to see infrastructure crumble nationwide (to say nothing of investment in new and improved infrastructure), investment in medical research curtailed, federal and state workers furloughed, social security and medicare cut, grants to support higher education for economically marginal students cut back, and political instability increase due to an increasingly economically polarized population.
I don't want the inept and corrupt government involved in any of those things, i.e. education, welfare,medical research, health care, retirement...
I wonder why any responsible adult does?
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Old 09-10-2014, 06:36 PM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,250,023 times
Reputation: 2169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
Since the 1980s, it seems to me that we have seen a relentless series of tax cuts of various types, but especially for those at the top. Now that we are running a deficit, folks who want to balance the budget with some revenue options (back to, say, 1990s tax and spending levels) are considered socialists and communists. How can after 15 steps to the right 2 steps to the left be a socialist revolution?

My wife thinks it is pure political mud slinging (say the most outrageous thing you can get by with and hope it sticks). Is she right?
There were only minute steps to the right and many giant leaps left.

Why do liberals always lie?
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Old 09-10-2014, 06:36 PM
 
1,259 posts, read 739,117 times
Reputation: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by skoro View Post
I think we have socialism for the wealthy and capitalism for the rest of us.

I am afraid you're right.
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Old 09-10-2014, 06:37 PM
 
1,259 posts, read 739,117 times
Reputation: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwmdk View Post
There were only minute steps to the right and many giant leaps left.

Why do liberals always lie?
Did it ever occur to you that maybe liberals are not lying but you might have quite a narrow view of the world? Lol
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