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I have to wonder how soon this war would have started and what questions would have been asked by the general public if each night the evening news were to broadcast the real film footage of life in Iraq instead of the 'Green Zone Hotel Bar'. Heads removed from bodies, pieces parts, scorched earth, the real meat grinder that Iraq really was....
darn, someone beat me to interrupting the lovefest that this thread was...
This video is a perfect example of how much trouble this country is in.. Seems college kids now are not what they used to be and that applies to all of them, no matter which way they lean politically. Nearly every one of them is looking out for themselves and to hell with anything else.. I hate to generalize, but I didn't go to school with kids like that, not at all...
This video could've gone the completely opposite direction and I seriously doubt anything would be different, except for supporting the war. If I was making this and wanted to attack the democrats I would've asked them if they support the troops. Pretty much eveything would go in the exact same direction after that..
darn, someone beat me to interrupting the lovefest that this thread was...
This video is a perfect example of how much trouble this country is in.. Seems college kids now are not what they used to be and that applies to all of them, no matter which way they lean politically. Nearly every one of them is looking out for themselves and to hell with anything else.. I hate to generalize, but I didn't go to school with kids like that, not at all...
This video could've gone the completely opposite direction and I seriously doubt anything would be different, except for supporting the war. If I was making this and wanted to attack the democrats I would've asked them if they support the troops. Pretty much eveything would go in the exact same direction after that..
I don't think there's any democrats that would say they don't support the troops.. there's a difference between supporting young people who are doing their duty.. and supporting them being sent off to a pointless and useless bloody war...
I meant they (democrats) would say they support the troops, but if asked if they planned on joining to actually support them, the answer would be the same as the kids in this video.
I meant they (democrats) would say they support the troops, but if asked if they planned on joining to actually support them, the answer would be the same as the kids in this video.
Just like the reasons why so many currently in the military and many fighting in country are supporting the anti-war candidate Ron Paul.
From my experience, many of the veterans who have served in the meat grinder of war, often leave with the bitter reminder of the inhumanity of it and are often the most reluctant to engage in war in the future. Colin Powell, Anthony Zinni, and several others who served during Vietnam were the ones most opposed to the war in Iraq and then were asked to leave or were fired. However it was the neoconservative think tanks that have never seen the inside of a tank that pushed this thing to where we are now.
Want to support the troops, then bring them home from a war based upon bovine excrement, orchestrated by inept and bumbling cronyism, funded by spineless cowards who lust to feed off the spoils of other peoples labors while being served upon the dead carcasses of hundreds of thousands of civilians who didn't ask for this BS, all while putting nice lil yellow ribbons on the back of their Ford Explorer saying, support the troops while the troops weld scrap steel on the side of their HumVee's to prevent getting a 7.62mm hole in the side of their head from the little kid they just have a Hershy bar to, only to arrive back and camp and get charged 12 dollars for a six pack of coke by the same people back up at comma three that I mentioned above.
We will not win any ground, freeing people from a brutal dictator at the expense of several million displaced, dead, and wounded men, women, and children is not just nor humane, nor is it "conservative".
They say the betrayal of trust is the slaughter of hope, and after nearly six years of being witness to one of the most inhumane and despicable acts of human indignity, my hope is pretty well butchered.
Conservative, the root is CONSERVE, like CONSERVation, trying conserving life instead of truck loads of crap.
Last edited by TnHilltopper; 09-19-2007 at 08:24 PM..
I wonder when we are going to wake up and realize that there is no winner in this situation. Our response to the car bombings, beheadings, oppression, radical religion and assassinations is to reduce cities to ash, torture and imprison without trial, empower religious zealots, and increase sectarianism and tribalism. The response is reactionary on both sides and the status quo is not changing.
I wonder when we are going to wake up and realize that there is no winner in this situation. Our response to the car bombings, beheadings, oppression, radical religion and assassinations is to reduce cities to ash, torture and imprison without trial, empower religious zealots, and increase sectarianism and tribalism. The response is reactionary on both sides and the status quo is not changing.
Always nice to see another Ron Paul supporter.
I am not sure if people are capable of just waking up to it until it hits home or they are exposed to it in a more personal manner. I am reminded by the movie Apocalypse Now as there is a scene with Col. Kurtz where he says, "We teach young men to drop fire on people but won't allow them to write f*ck on their airplanes because it is offensive", and this prevails to this day.
I am willing to bet most people are not aware that blood and particularly brain matter has a distinct odor to it when it first leaves a body and it is something a person will recognize forever. I would also bet that if people were able to hear the gurgling sounds someone makes when they are drowning in their own blood and the look of panic they have on their face when they don't understand why they can't get air.
Removed from the tangible sights and sounds as well as the scenes of carnage that war brings and replace them with stock footage of burning cars, crowds of angry "different looking people" over dubbed with the constant droning of how war leads to stability, death leads to prosperity, life means more to the viewer than the images on the screen, and people will continue to purchase war no matter what the price.
It will however mean something entirely different to these people who have felt the life of a body leave while it rested in their very arms.
We have to remember that Iraq was a war of CHOICE, not one to defend ourselves and those that chose to enter in this war were not those pictured above or even you or I, but a small group of people who have decided the fate of millions of others based upon a vision of madness. None who have been held accountable for their actions, nor will they ever.
Come on, hilltopper, didn't you get the memo that we are good and they are bad and we have the right to compel disarmament of anyone that doesn't bow and kiss Bush's big toe?
Come on, hilltopper, didn't you get the memo that we are good and they are bad and we have the right to compel disarmament of anyone that doesn't bow and kiss Bush's big toe?
No, I never got the memo, but I don't believe we are bad and I don't believe we are good, we are merely human beings subject to the same whims as the rest of the human beings we have to share this planet with. One of my major issues is that people want to see the world in binary terms, as you stated, "good and bad", us or them, when the biggest difference is usually only the books they read, and more often than not, their religious texts, but they are still human beings.
If we are to lay claim to being an enlightened and civilized people that tout our ideals of freedom and our great society, then it would stand to reason that it would be able to stand on its own merits and would not need the vast tools of war to enforce its, "enlightened nobility"
Now every person and every nation has a right to defend itself as much as humans have the right to breath. Today we enter into the notion that we have to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here. This has recently been tried by a man named Adolf Hitler who told his people after the Reichstag was burned that the people of Germany had to fight them over there (in Poland) so they wouldn't have to fight there over here (in Germany) and the people bought it, lock stock and barrel.
People will then say, well that could not happen here, and I have no doubts that the people of Germany said the same thing. I am sure there were aristocrats in Rome that said the empire will never fall, as denial is something all human beings share. People who enter into an idea, a concept, or beliefs on how something is or should be, they will more often than not, follow that premise unto its demise rather than change course and be seen as wrong or mistaken.
Preemptive warfare in the name of defense is simply imperialism wrapped in a sweetened pill to make it easy to swallow by the masses, and swallow they do.
Cost of these actions are usually defined in terms of troops lost, dollars spent, buildings destroyed, but this war, like every war before it, tends to forget those faceless people who didn't ask to enter into war but were merely victims of their residence. We turn a blind eye to the broken bodies of children laying in pieces on a city street because they talk different, look different and are a world away. After all, an enlightened and righteous society need not concern itself with those people who should have done something to prevent it right, just like we had the power to prevent our military engaging in this war.
Don't believe the apathy exist, just look at the response to this very thread. People don't want to concern themselves with the horrors of war. Those that promote it will rationalize it in their minds to make it fit their reality. Many of those who oppose it will sit idly by denying they have the power to change things and so it goes on.
I feel strongly about this issue because I have seen, heard and smelt the torn flesh and broken bodies of my fellow man. I have been witness to having another human being die in my grasp and watch the life leave their body as they stare blankly at the sky. While death may be guaranteed to us all, to promote it in the package of moral indignation is inhuman and quite uncivilized. We then become the very savages we enter into war against.
While death may be guaranteed to us all, to promote it in the package of moral indignation is inhuman and quite uncivilized. We then become the very savages we enter into war against.
Exactly.
There is a JJ Cale/Eric Clapton song called "When This War Is Over, It Will Be A Better Day." It mentions the fact that ending the war won't bring back those poor kids in their graves.
Snippet:
Ain't no sense in no action
Killing people all the time
Ain't no sense in no action
Killing people all the time
When it happens on the street
We call that crime
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