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Old 05-08-2012, 05:36 AM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,042,570 times
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Within a decade, the national debt grew 10 fold, to 22 Billion.

This is 10 years after the 16th amendment was ratified.

What gives?

More proof that spending is the problem, not revenue.
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:39 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,880 posts, read 15,192,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
Within a decade, the national debt grew 10 fold, to 22 Billion.

This is 10 years after the 16th amendment was ratified.

What gives?

More proof that spending is the problem, not revenue.

more proof that more goverment is not the answer and more proof that the 16th Amendment is the fraud it was intended to be.
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:42 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,761,940 times
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Debt is money and money allows for economic growth. Borrow and spend during downturns and control the booms with high level progressive rate taxes. The goal is steady growth in proportion to the population. Boom and bust economies only benefit the speculators at great cost to everyone else. Speculators are destructive parasites on a capitalist market driven economy.

Austerity during a downturn only assures the total destruction of everyone but the wealthiest.
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:43 AM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,042,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Debt is money and money allows for economic growth. Borrow and spend during downturns and control the booms with high level progressive rate taxes. The goal is steady growth in proportion to the population. Boom and bust economies only benefit the speculators at great cost to everyone else. Speculators are destructive parasites on a capitalist market driven economy.

Austerity during a downturn only assures the total destruction of everyone but the wealthiest.
This probably sounded better in your head.
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:44 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,880 posts, read 15,192,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Debt is money and money allows for economic growth. Borrow and spend during downturns and control the booms with high level progressive rate taxes. The goal is steady growth in proportion to the population. Boom and bust economies only benefit the speculators at great cost to everyone else. Speculators are destructive parasites on a capitalist market driven economy.

Austerity during a downturn only assures the total destruction of everyone but the wealthiest.

debt is not money, debt is bad. only to govermet is debt good because it allows for more borrowing.

if the people borrowed as much as the goverment did, people that made 25k a year would have millions in debt.
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:49 AM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,042,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenching View Post
debt is not money, debt is bad. only to govermet is debt good because it allows for more borrowing.

if the people borrowed as much as the goverment did, people that made 25k a year would have millions in debt.
I think he was trying to say that actively employed people who are trained in trading are leeches, but the unemployed should continue to be paid.

I further think he was making a case that when the economy is down, governments should bankrupt themselves by continuing to fund the dregs.
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:14 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,943,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
Within a decade, the national debt grew 10 fold, to 22 Billion.

This is 10 years after the 16th amendment was ratified.

What gives?

More proof that spending is the problem, not revenue.
Do you seem to remember any important event that occurred around 1914-1918? IT WAS WORLD WAR I!!! Don't you think that may have something to do with with increasing debt?



So, yes. Spending was the cause of the debt -- war spending -- and spending declined to virtually pre-war levels after WWI.
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:15 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,880 posts, read 15,192,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Do you seem to remember any important event that occurred around 1914-1918? IT WAS WORLD WAR I!!! Don't you think that may have something to do with with increasing debt?



yep, a war we the USA should not have even been involved in.
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,943,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenching View Post
yep, a war we the USA should not have even been involved in.
That's not the issue.

alphamale was making the case that because the U.S. instituted an income tax, it encouraged government to spend and cause debt. That's basically false.

The U.S. was involved in a war and spent a lot of money. Had there been no income tax, the U.S. would probably still been involved in WWI. The only difference would have been the debt would have been higher due to lack of an income tax to partially off-set war costs.
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:24 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,761,940 times
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OK - Please describe our economic situation if the Federal state and Local governments had to balance their budgets every year by marching spending with taxation not excluding times of war? Consider what the economy would look like if all credit cards became debit cards without any loan provisions and had to be paid off each month.

Would this be the kind of economy you would prefer? Would you accept the resulting unemployment figures? How would these proposed restrictions on lending effect the economy’s ability to provide food, shelter and clothing let alone economic growth? How would such an economy create surpluses that could be reinvested in future growth or just sequestered by the owners?
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