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sorry if this has already been covered - i haven't read the whole thread...
"longhaired radical socialist jew"
lyrics etc by hugh blumenfeld
"Well, Jesus was a homeless lad
With an unwed mother and an absent dad
And I really don't think he would have gotten that far
If Newt, Pat and Jesse had followed that star
So let's all sing out praises to
That longhaired radical socialist Jew
When Jesus taught the people he
Would never charge a tuition fee
He just took some fishes and some bread
And made up free school lunches instead
So let's all sing out praises to
That long-haired radical socialist Jew
He healed the blind and made them see
He brought the lame folks to their feet
Rich and poor, any time, anywhere
Just pioneering that free health care
So let's all sing out praises to
That longhaired radical socialist Jew
...."
you can google the rest...
09-20-2007, 08:57 PM
proudmary
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manigault
Proudmary, I have heard dozens of the conservatives say that America has a war against Christians and is trying to ban Christmas. The question was what would Christ think of Christmas and the answer is that different Christian sects will give you different answers.
I'm not saying ban Christmas. Celebrate it anyway you want, even in summer like some folks. Just don't ask for public dollars for it or for showy public displays on civil building property. I think the constitution says something about establishing an official religion in the country. And you can say 'Merry Christmas' all you want; knock yourself out.
While you may grant permission to say "Merry Christmas" all I want, it is not allowed in numerous public places. For starters many stores, banks, post offices, etc., nowadays tell employees not to wish customers a "Merry Christmas". You cannot mention Christmas in public schools. Heck you can't even bring in cupcakes on your child's birthday anymore to the third grade, lest there be somebody in the class who does not celebrate birthdays (like the Jehovah Witnesses). In my opinion, this is the silliness that liberal secularism leads to.
Companies have banned the use of wishing their customers "Merry Christmas", schools have refrained from using the term "Christmas Break", and now use "Holiday Break" instead, so as not to offend...
I don't think it's a matter of offending. I think it's a matter of exclusion. Christmas is an overtly Christian event. There aren't any other religions that observe it. If a store or particularly a school simply wishes a Merry Christmas, it is addressing Christians only and ignoring all those who are not Christian. Happy Holidays, by contrast, is inclusive. It covers everyone. Even the hardest-boiled atheist has New Year's in there to identify with.
So maybe the real question has nothing to do with why liberals are trying to muzzle Christians. Maybe it has more to do with why Christians are trying to claim the Holiday Season as something that's theirs alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudmary
Liberals would like to remove God from everywhere but the church or synagogue.
No, they wouldn't. Liberals object to THE STATE endorsing one religion over another, or religion over non-religion. These matters are none of the state's business. Period. Religion (or the lack thereof) is entirely an individual matter in this country. As an individual, you can go out on any public sidewalk and Praise the Lord until the cows come home. And if anybody tries to stop you, you can count on liberals standing shoulder-to-shoulder with you in defending your right to do that...
09-20-2007, 09:53 PM
proudmary
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista
I don't think it's a matter of offending. I think it's a matter of exclusion. Christmas is an overtly Christian event. There aren't any other religions that observe it. If a store or particularly a school simply wishes a Merry Christmas, it is addressing Christians only and ignoring all those who are not Christian. Happy Holidays, by contrast, is inclusive. It covers everyone. Even the hardest-boiled atheist has New Year's in there to identify with.
So maybe the real question has nothing to do with why liberals are trying to muzzle Christians. Maybe it has more to do with why Christians are trying to claim the Holiday Season as something that's theirs alone.
No, they wouldn't. Liberals object to THE STATE endorsing one religion over another, or religion over non-religion. These matters are none of the state's business. Period. Religion (or the lack thereof) is entirely an individual matter in this country. As an individual, you can go out on any public sidewalk and Praise the Lord until the cows come home. And if anybody tries to stop you, you can count on liberals standing shoulder-to-shoulder with you in defending your right to do that...
I would like to share a personal experience I recently had which is relevant to this discussion: My gynocologist, who is Jewish (which as we know is a minority in this country, let alone the world), mistakenly wished me a Happy Passover last April at the end of our telephone conversation. I am not a Jew. However, I took absolutely no offense and neither did I feel excluded. Why would I? He was going off with his family to celebrate Passover, we were talking about it, and for whatever reason, he assumed I was Jewish. I don't do Passover, I do Easter. Big deal, he didn't know, and I didn't even bother to explain that I am Catholic and therefore do not observe Passover. I simply said "thank you, and you also."
So, was my doctor wrong? Should he simply have said "Happy day" or "Happy Spring" or something vague like "If you celebrate any holiday have a nice one"?
I can assure you I had no problem being wished a "Happy Passover" even though I am not Jewish. I can honestly say that I have no emotional scars from it, I felt no need to contact the ACLU or any medical boards to report my doctor for inappropriate conduct. I simply found it to be nice. If you or anyone else can explain why I should have felt "excluded", I would love to be enlightened.
You know. If you don't like to hear "Merry Christmas", chose to ignore us. But don't tell us we can't say it. It's a greeting. It has no hidden agenda, it's simply a greeting that is heart felt in people. So don't worry about it.
09-20-2007, 10:20 PM
proudmary
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudmary
I would like to share a personal experience I recently had which is relevant to this discussion: My gynocologist, who is Jewish (which as we know is a minority in this country, let alone the world), mistakenly wished me a Happy Passover last April at the end of our telephone conversation. I am not a Jew. However, I took absolutely no offense and neither did I feel excluded. Why would I? He was going off with his family to celebrate Passover, we were talking about it, and for whatever reason, he assumed I was Jewish. I don't do Passover, I do Easter. Big deal, he didn't know, and I didn't even bother to explain that I am Catholic and therefore do not observe Passover. I simply said "thank you, and you also."
So, was my doctor wrong? Should he simply have said "Happy day" or "Happy Spring" or something vague like "If you celebrate any holiday have a nice one"?
I can assure you I had no problem being wished a "Happy Passover" even though I am not Jewish. I can honestly say that I have no emotional scars from it, I felt no need to contact the ACLU or any medical boards to report my doctor for inappropriate conduct. I simply found it to be nice. If you or anyone else can explain why I should have felt "excluded", I would love to be enlightened.
Saganista, I forgot to add to my previous post that I am pretty positive my doctor was not "trying to claim the holiday season as his own" as a Jew, by wishing me a happy Passover.
I feel the need to clarify: I was never attempting to argue that Christmas is fun and I like the decorations, and that I want to wish everyone Merry Christmas without repurcussions.
My point is that whether or not December 25 is your holiday, why should we as Americans be silenced in expressing whatever our holiday gig is? Companies have banned the use of wishing their customers "Merry Christmas", schools have refrained from using the term "Christmas Break", and now use "Holiday Break" instead, so as not to offend, despite the fact that the break always falls over Christmas. (And regardless of the fact that the overwhelming majority of this country calls themselves Christian.)
I think it's a blessing that we live in America, a country where we are able to celebrate our religious distinctions (including those who believe in no God). However, liberals, who yearn to secularize America, would rather squash our being able to publicly celebrate anything that even hints at religion. Liberals would like to remove God from everywhere but the church or synagogue. That is what I'm against, and that is one of the reasons I suggested Jesus would not be a liberal, because i believe He would not be for this, which was, afterall, the OP question.
I don't take offense to someone saying merry christmas.. I think its not about excluding christians, but rather including others.. "holiday break" means that all of the holidays durring that time of year are able to break for it.. and yes.. its a matter of the state not endorsing christianity or any other ONE religion..I don't care where it is.. or how its used.. but when it is on public property or anything payed for by tax dollars... it has to remain secular..
here in boise a couple years ago.. a religious group wanted to put the ten commandments as a monument in the city park.. next to the ann frank memorial.. it was ripped out because it was on tax payer property, and was a statement of religion... and if you ask me.. that is the right thing to do.. the constitution is in place for a reason.. so that the super majority cannot impose on the minority.. doing what you wish and believe is fine.. but if you are infringing on other people's rights.. then it is unconstitutional
for an example... If you are not mormon.. try moving to utah... you would understand what it is like to be a religious minority.. everything that is social there revolves around the Mormon church because that is what most people are.. and that is fine.. but you won't find a statue of joseph smith on PUBLIC property.. and imagine if they wished to put joseph smith on their capital steps? how would the nation react?
also, imagine living in utah, and paying your normal state taxes and such, and they decide to make all the kids in utah learn about the book of mormon as part of their school curriculum, and they decide to put it to a vote..so that tax dollars could be used to pay for it.... considering your stance on the national level... in utah... your children would be forced to go to such a class.. would you support the super majority rulings then?
I would like to share a personal experience I recently had which is relevant to this discussion: My gynocologist, who is Jewish (which as we know is a minority in this country, let alone the world), mistakenly wished me a Happy Passover last April at the end of our telephone conversation. I am not a Jew. However, I took absolutely no offense and neither did I feel excluded. Why would I? He was going off with his family to celebrate Passover, we were talking about it, and for whatever reason, he assumed I was Jewish. I don't do Passover, I do Easter. Big deal, he didn't know, and I didn't even bother to explain that I am Catholic and therefore do not observe Passover. I simply said "thank you, and you also."
So, was my doctor wrong? Should he simply have said "Happy day" or "Happy Spring" or something vague like "If you celebrate any holiday have a nice one"?
I can assure you I had no problem being wished a "Happy Passover" even though I am not Jewish. I can honestly say that I have no emotional scars from it, I felt no need to contact the ACLU or any medical boards to report my doctor for inappropriate conduct. I simply found it to be nice. If you or anyone else can explain why I should have felt "excluded", I would love to be enlightened.
I believe that you are confusing individual rights to exercise religious freedom in the manner chosen (which everyone has) with the First Ammendment's premise to prevent encroachment of one religion upon another or upon a lack of religion in some cases.
Regardless of "Merry Christmas" being a benign inncocuous holiday greeting, it brings with it meaning and should not be forced on anyone. Just think of how your argument would change if the government was forcing you to celebrate Ramadan. It is a holiday of goodwill afterall, with anger, envy, greed, sarcasm and gossip being no no's during this time and family and friends getting together to celebrate mercy, forgiveness and salvation. Hm, sounds strangely familiar...
That is all dandy but a sum total of NONE of those are quotes of Jesus.
That is all more along a Paulist line trying to dress up in Jesus clothes. I see a lot of that. If one wants to worship Paul, just be straight up and worship Paul. See where that takes you.
Paul...Mickey Mouse...what's the difference? Was the word not inspired by God (Jesus)?
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