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I do not think black people need or should be asked to be "foot soldiers" (not that I think that is happening) but I do think the gay rights movement is similar to the civil rights movement in one particular way, that of institutional discrimination.
Latinos, asians, and many other groups have certainly faced discrimination but no other group has suffered the degree of institutional and governmental discrimination that blacks and african americans have faced. In that instance, that of institutional and government discrimination, I think the analogy of CRM and GRM is apt at least to a degree.
And while within any group of people, some are going to suck (like those who discriminate), I think some people expect blacks to be more sensitive to discrimination against others due to their history in this nation. Maybe that in and of itself is a form of racism, to assume based on their race that some people will be more tolerant. That is sort of sad.
What is always left off of comments like this is the implied obligation that other groups (be it the gay community or any other group) expect of Blacks. Again, Blacks are supposed to obediently fall in line for any cause thrust upon them by whatever group needs an army....Blacks are supposed to be the willing pawns.
Gays are refusing to hold up a mirror to themselves and be honest about their neglect of the African American community. Gays have abandoned the issue of AIDS/HIV in regards to Black Americans because it no longer affects them. All of the services that the gay community fought for during the height of the AIDS crisis has not been bestowed upon Blacks and Latinos. So I call the gay community to task on that issue.
When will black people rise up and demand that homosexuals quit using them as pawns to channel their angst and outrage? How many threads must we endure from Homosexuals With Hurt Feelingsâ„¢ who insist on believing their plight is equal to the struggle of black people 50 years ago?
Interesting how certain people are outraged when other people aren't as outraged as they are - and then expect those other people to act according to their wishes.
You can't control other people, no matter how badly you'd like to do it.
What is always left off of comments like this is the implied obligation that other groups (be it the gay community or any other group) expect of Blacks. Again, Blacks are supposed to obediently fall in line for any cause thrust upon them by whatever group needs an army....Blacks are supposed to be the willing pawns.
I agree. The expectation is frequently, and unfairly there. Being free from prejudice would mean that we no longer have such expectations of the black community.
That being said, I think the majority of gays believe that blacks will understand the inherent unfairness of denying them rights. I do not know personally, or seen anything from the GRM that wants to use black people as pawns. I am truly sorry you feel that way.
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Gays are refusing to hold up a mirror to themselves and be honest about their neglect of the African American community. Gays have abandoned the issue of AIDS/HIV in regards to Black Americans because it no longer affects them. All of the services that the gay community fought for during the height of the AIDS crisis has not been bestowed upon Blacks and Latinos. So I call the gay community to task on that issue.
See, this part is very unfair in my opinion. I am going to assume as a black person part of a larger black community you do not want or appreciate when people assign the motives and actions of a few members of community to ALL the members of that community. And yet, here you are doing the exact same thing to the gay community. Maybe you really think all gay people are callous, unfeeling, etc. If so I suggest that maybe you should remember that gay people are PEOPLE first the same way black people are PEOPLE first. People can have a whole list of foibles and fault regardless of what community they belong too, it is a shame to pretend that it is membership to a group that trumps all else.
First, more people need to research what "marriage" really is...
That point aside, the people that say the blacks should be mad at the "dirty little Gays" for equating their struggles to be treated as equals to their own are really highlighting their OWN bigotry.
For those that say they are against "same sex marriage"(Gay marriage is an incorrect term), I say what affect does them being able to wed have on YOUR life? Those that say "sanctity of marriage" I say go to Vegas and see all the chapels that actually have little gang wars over customers there are so many.
Talk to ya'll's buddy Newt about sanctity of marriage too.
I agree. The expectation is frequently, and unfairly there. Being free from prejudice would mean that we no longer have such expectations of the black community.
That being said, I think the majority of gays believe that blacks will understand the inherent unfairness of denying them rights. I do not know personally, or seen anything from the GRM that wants to use black people as pawns. I am truly sorry you feel that way.
See, this part is very unfair in my opinion. I am going to assume as a black person part of a larger black community you do not want or appreciate when people assign the motives and actions of a few members of community to ALL the members of that community. And yet, here you are doing the exact same thing to the gay community. Maybe you really think all gay people are callous, unfeeling, etc. If so I suggest that maybe you should remember that gay people are PEOPLE first the same way black people are PEOPLE first. People can have a whole list of foibles and fault regardless of what community they belong too, it is a shame to pretend that it is membership to a group that trumps all else.
What is obviously not registering in my comments is the difference between my personal beliefs/experiences with gays/lesbians/bisexuals and the general attitude of Black Americans overall. The attitude that the gay community has as a whole is quite a turn off...this sort of "shame on them" they should be happy to fight for "us". Yet not one single gay person is selfless enough to say/post that they are being extremely self serving (and unfair) in their critcism. The tune is deeply condescending and actually down right insulting.
I have gay/lesbian friends, relatives and co-workers so I have seen the good, the bad, the crazy and beyond. So I personally have no problems with gay rights. However, I do take issue with the "pushiness" that the gay community has in "drafting" Blacks into their fight based on past history of discrimination. And again, I notice that not one single gay person has addressed my multiple previous comments about not placing the same sense of "obligation" on Asians, Latinos or Native Americans regarding gay rights.
"should the public be able to vote on their right to adopt?"
If they choose something which defines them as being black and the only way to be black is to express this preference, then anyone who chooses to be black should understand that their choice may have unintended consequences like making them ineligible to adopt.
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Originally Posted by Rlarson21
well being gay isn't a choice also! so i guess your answer is NO. i'm glad you agree with me.
also, how many people who were born straight DON"T express their preference?
If someone doesn't have sex with a person of the same sex, how are they a homosexual?
Isn't anything a person could do to define his or her self as a homosexual a voluntary activity?
Do you expect they'll ask what you think about when you're getting your freak on?
Why is the government involved in marriage other than to extort license fees? Marriage should be a religious or non-religious (however you role) ceremony declaring the love of 2 (or more in some cases). If you want to combine property, grant inheritance, etc then go to an attorney and get a binding contract.
Right now, it is the opposite. If two people want to get married and keep their property separate, they have to get a pre-nup. If the lawyer lobby thought my idea would generate more money they would be all over it.
What is obviously not registering in my comments is the difference between my personal beliefs/experiences with gays/lesbians/bisexuals and the general attitude of Black Americans overall. The attitude that the gay community has as a whole is quite a turn off...this sort of "shame on them" they should be happy to fight for "us". Yet not one single gay person is selfless enough to say/post that they are being extremely self serving (and unfair) in their critcism. The tune is deeply condescending and actually down right insulting.
I have gay/lesbian friends, relatives and co-workers so I have seen the good, the bad, the crazy and beyond. So I personally have no problems with gay rights. However, I do take issue with the "pushiness" that the gay community has in "drafting" Blacks into their fight based on past history of discrimination. And again, I notice that not one single gay person has addressed my multiple previous comments about not placing the same sense of "obligation" on Asians, Latinos or Native Americans regarding gay rights.
Are you claiming that latinos, asians, etc have faced the same governmental discrimination blacks have? As for American Indians, they lack the population size to have a real impact and while many americans alive now remember the CRM the same cannot be said of american indians, especially when you consider indian rights were centered around sovereignty, not particular relevant to either CRM of GRM.
Blaming the gay community for not reaching out to american indians is silly in light of the lack of reaching out down by the black community to that same group during the civil right movement.
if majorities can vote on the rights of minorities while having themselves and NOT risk losing those rights while voting on them for others, shouldn't it be OK of my state wanted to vote on the right of black people to adopt children?
Why don't we vote on no rights unless you have a college education with many degrees ??
Why don't we vote on banning Christians in our society
Why Why Why are so many people intent on changing so many things ??
I guess you forgot the Declaration of Independence - We hold these truths self evident - ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL
My guess is that the gay minority want to adopt children ?? Sure no problem what so ever it will teach children to be forgiving
How are YOU not able to see that it is wrong to attempt to make Black people slaves to any and every cause....I don't see those same demands being made of Asians, Latinos or Native Americans. So stop assuming that Black people are obligated to jump on any bandwagon that crosses our path. We all know that there are MANY White gays who despise Black people but feel that Black people should fall in step to help fight for your cause. Fight your own battles because we owe you nothing.
You know who I feel sorry for? My black gay brothers and sisters.
There is racism everywhere, and homophobia too. It's a shame that there's racism in the gay community, but as well that there's homophobia in the black community.
Meanwhile, the white heterosexuals who desire to maintain the status quo (such as Aeroguy, who has shown bigotry on the Martin threads AND homophobia on the gay threads) sit back and laugh.
Divide and conquer. Don't fall for it - together we are stronger.
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Gays are refusing to hold up a mirror to themselves and be honest about their neglect of the African American community. Gays have abandoned the issue of AIDS/HIV in regards to Black Americans because it no longer affects them. All of the services that the gay community fought for during the height of the AIDS crisis has not been bestowed upon Blacks and Latinos. So I call the gay community to task on that issue.
I agree. However, a large part of the HIV/AIDS crisis in the AA community is due to AA men having sex with AA men, then spreading it to the girlfriends, etc. "Down low" is a huge issue, and it remains a huge issue because being homosexual is generally not accepted in the AA community. If there were more acceptance, people may not behave in such a reckless manner and feel more free to be themselves. Then again, there is also racism in the gay community that repels them as well. Like I said before - I really feel bad for my black gay brothers and sisters - they are in a tough spot. That's why I admire people like Wanda Sykes and Don Lemon. They are positive role-models. And Queen Latifa, whenever she gets around to actually coming out.
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Blaming the gay community for not reaching out to american indians is silly in light of the lack of reaching out down by the black community to that same group during the civil right movement.
The lesbian Chicana community is very well known for reaching out to the American Indian community. Read Cherrie Moraga.
Last edited by db108108; 05-11-2012 at 10:57 PM..
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