Jena 6 Rallies: They are protesting all over the country, what are your views.. (generation, speech)

[Tank1906]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye48

The white kids were originally expelled, but it was reduced to a suspension because no one was hurt. What they did was wrong, but it certainly wasn't a violent crime.

And the nooses that were hung didn't lead anyone to anything. Everyone, black and white, is responsible for his or her own actions. Nobody can make anyone do anything. And just because one person does something, it does not give another person license to attack an innocent third party like Barker.

For your info..Hanging a noose is symbol of a pending lynching. Last time I checked, lynchings were violent. It can also be considered a hate crime federally which are punishable by many years in prison. Unfortunately, we don't see fit to punish, admonish or do anything to white kids. "They were just playing".

[Tank1906]

Originally Posted by cremebrulee

I'm guessing, two senerios, he either wanted to stop the fight/or, simply intimidate, with no intention, to shoot....

But, I get your point...well made, but clearly, won't be understood, me thinks?

It's funny how the white kids have all the guns but nobody sees anything wrong with that. If that many black kids had guns the National Guard would've been in Jenna!

I think some will make an excuse for everything white folks do. Last time I checked, it was a felony for a juvenile to illegally possess and/or brandish a weapon.

Since we're making excuses, I think the black kids we're just trying to say "high".

[Tank1906]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye48

Honestly, I couldn't care less about the noose. It isn't a violent act. And I'm intelligent enough to realize a rope is just a rope. People can only be incited if they let others control them. And why would anyone want to give another person that kind of power over themselves? In all likelihood, more white people have probably died getting hung than black people anyway. As far as slaves that were hung, or black people that were lynched, at what point can people decide to get over it? Because isn't that what it takes?

To your Juvie comments, sure that's how the system is supposed to work. Just like when prosecutors petition the criminal court to get the case heard in adult court when circumstances warrant is how the system is also supposed to work. And this case certainly warrants Bell getting tried in adult court. Hopefully with hate crime enhancements. At least that way it will be much safer in his neighborhood for a while. Mark my words, anyone who would stomp someone unconscious is headed for prison in the future. In ten years Bell will have a felony record as long as your arm and he'll have caused people, probably most of them black, a lot of pain and suffering.

You've lost whatever credibility you had with this post. I wont waste my time addressing the details.

[TriMT7]

Originally Posted by Anchorless

Suppose some young college kids attend a service for veterans. Suppose they stand in front of them, and one of them pulls an American flag from his backpack, and sets it on the ground. Suppose he begins to urinate on it, and then douses it with gas, and lights it on fire while the other kids stand and chant "warmongers" or something like that.

Now, I'm not justifying the use of violence, nor am I picking upon veterans or promoting the desecration of the flag - I'm just using a hypo that could very happen in hopes that you may understand the frustration and anger that hanging a noose may cause for a group of people, and understand (though again, not justify) why these kids st Jena responded the way they did.

But your analogy doesn't quite follow what happened with the Nooses.

Yelling "fire" in a theater creates an imminent harm. Burning the ground at a funeral potentially creates imminent harm. If you have just a couple minutes to "think about" what a "speaker" is doing, it is not considered incitement, or imminent harm. The fact that no black kids "reacted" by lashing out in self defense immediately at any white kid in the area upon viewing the nooses more or less demonstrates that the imminent harm argument falls flat.

That's why the KKK is allowed to burn crosses, just not on a black family's lawn. If the white kids approached the black kids, nooses in hand and screamed "Lynch the black kids," THEN your analogy would be similar. As far as I know, the nooses were placed before anyone got to school. It's hate speech (which I don't think should be illegal, unlike hate CRIMES, but that's a different topic), but it's not illegal.

IMO, at most it's "Disturbing the peace" or something similar.


The black kids were rightfully enraged. It's the exact response the white kids most likely had in putting the nooses in the tree in the first place. But does it justify "assault"? No, as I heard one law professor say, "It's amazing the amount of personal violence Americans believe they have a right to engage in." Be it retrieving stolen property, shooting someone on your property, etc., your response LEGALLY can only ever be as escalated as that which you are encountered with (Unless you're in a "Castle doctrine" state, but that's not at issue here!). You can't shoot someone who "just" engages in a fist fight with you, and you certainly can't wait until days later to exact violent revenge on someone who engaged in hate speech.

Otherwise there'd be a loooot of dead people of all races who we'd say "got what they deserved!"

[Miker2069]

Originally Posted by VAFury

My personal favorite is the, "Oops I was wrong, I'm going to pretend like I didn't see it." tactic.



Still waiting after you attempted to call me out for admitting I was unsure of the facts and YOU claimed to KNOW the facts....

Then it turns out you had no clue either (but were attempting to claim you did) and I was right that there was a DARN good reason for Mychal Bell to be charged as an adult.....

Here's your post claiming this in case you forgot....



Apparrently it was sufficient enough as you WERE in the dark even moreso than I...

VA, quite honestly I lost track of your particular response as this has been a very active thread. However since it means a lot to you, I'll respond *again* and we can all go another lap around the track on this. Yes, I've read a lot on this case over the last few months, I've attempted to look at all angles of this. I do believe there are legitimate cases of racially based injustice that occurs every day. I do believe also that the legitimate instances of such events are diluted by people who play the race card for the sake of playing it. It creates apathy for real victims of real of real racism, such as the apathy that has been demonstrated now regarding the Jena 6 story (It's simply another case of black people whining about something that isn't there...is usually the undertone by the apathetic).

However back to Bell and the "calling you out". I'm sorry you feel you interpreted as such. We are not going to agree on this so I'm comfortable with agreeing to disagree. You believe it's fine to try Bell as an adult, I don't. Pretty much that's it. You made a statement implying that I'm not in a position to know- what is to know other than the system didn't work as designed from the beginning. Do I believe Bell is completely innocent, no. Do I believe the noose is a form of hate crime, yes. Does the inaction of the school board, the need of the DA to visit and imply that with the stroke of a pen he could change the lives of the kids forever is wrong, yes- it's an abusive of power.

If it makes you feel better to believe I'm i n the dark, so-be-it. Really, it's not about you or me. We'll move away from the computer and go on with our lives.

[Rhett_Butler]

Originally Posted by Miker2069

However back to Bell and the "calling you out". I'm sorry you feel you interpreted as such. We are not going to agree on this so I'm comfortable with agreeing to disagree. You believe it's fine to try Bell as an adult, I don't. Pretty much that's it. You made a statement implying that I'm not in a position to know- what is to know other than the system didn't work as designed from the beginning. .

I'll respond to this part because it's the crux of the discussion. The important thing to note is that people seem to think it's some outrageous miscarriage of justice that Bell is being charged as an adult (oops, I'm sorry... WAS being charged as an adult ). I said that I was sure there had to be a good reason and there is.

Agree to disagree??? You don't think a history of criminal battery and a fifth criminal indictment is a reason to try him as an adult??? Obviously trying him as a juvenile hasn't helped.

Why for some reason people think the kids that hung the noose should face "equal" punishment is beyond me. Perhaps you'd care to explain.

[Rhett_Butler]

Originally Posted by Miker2069

VA, quite honestly I lost track of your particular response as this has been a very active thread. .

And that's fair. No problem.

[Rhett_Butler]

Originally Posted by Tank1906

It's funny how the white kids have all the guns but nobody sees anything wrong with that.

LOL... You aren't from the south are you??? White or black has nothing to do with it.

Originally Posted by Tank1906

If that many black kids had guns the National Guard would've been in Jenna!

Makes one wonder (other than the fact that they're all in Iraq) why the National Guard isn't in every major city in the nation then.

Nice straw man though.

Originally Posted by Tank1906

I think some will make an excuse for everything white folks do. Last time I checked, it was a felony for a juvenile to illegally possess and/or brandish a weapon.

Yeah, I mean being physically threatened and accosted is no excuse...

Originally Posted by Tank1906

Since we're making excuses, I think the black kids we're just trying to say "high".

You mean 'Hi'??? Speaking of losing credibility...

[Miker2069]

Originally Posted by VAFury

I'll respond to this part because it's the crux of the discussion. The important thing to note is that people seem to think it's some outrageous miscarriage of justice that Bell is being charged as an adult (oops, I'm sorry... WAS being charged as an adult ). I said that I was sure there had to be a good reason and there is.

Agree to disagree??? You don't think a history of criminal battery and a fifth criminal indictment is a reason to try him as an adult??? Obviously trying him as a juvenile hasn't helped.

Why for some reason people think the kids that hung the noose should face "equal" punishment is beyond me. Perhaps you'd care to explain.

Well, I'm not sure if I can explain it to the point of where someone can truly empathizes with it- it's good enough that some may actually sympathize with it. It's like attempting to explain how natural child birth feels to a man- you'll really only know when you know- but I'll take her word that it's painful.

As I mentioned, earlier, the general apathy level is higher. It seems everything is a "race card" or black people complaining- quite possibly it's always been this way and I never noticed until now that I'm in my late 30s.

It seems there are those that put the noose incident in the same category as toilet papering the school- in other words, just another prank. What's the big deal, no one was outwardly hurt, and yes it was stupid. However for the deep south and Jena is smack in the middle of the deep south, it's significant to a lot of people who can very much remember when it was sport to hang black men from a tree- take pictures with the lifeless bodies. Someones son, brother, father, uncle, etc. This was business as usual for nearly a 100 years, many generations of blacks *and whites* were appalled by it and had to live with it because the institution of law and order didn't work for them. To make light of it, even in a joking manner is wrong. Why is the swastika so painful to many 60+ years after concentration camps- even to generations of people who've never been to Germany. I mean let's just all get over it, right?- and move on. But when you see these things like that it rushes back many very real memories for a lot of lot people. Why do WW II veterans still get teary eyed when they talk about their fallen comrades 60 years later. Because the pain is still there and very real to them because they lived it. I simply mention the veterans to illustrate why some (actually many) may view WWII as ancient history, but to the men who bravely served in it- it's just as real as if it were yesterday.

So the noose is wrong, and should never have been treated lightly, given what it symbolizes. It was a threat, not with words but a threat nonetheless- and I accept there are people who aren't going to grasp that.

I'm a firm believer in we have more in common than we have that's different. I've screamed just as loudly for justice for the Duke Lacross students- it was wrong. There's case in GA, which is railroading of black underage teenager who had sex with a white girl- which was caught on video. It shows the girl pursuing him, and it was sensual. He was charged with rape and he faced a sentence of 20+ years in jail. Imagine that, high school kids having sex, the horror. However I mention it because a man raised near a million or close to a million for his defense fund. The man is white- and when asked why he did it- he's reply it's wrong- period.

The uproar around the Bell case is about the appropriate application of justice in our legal system. But like I've said several times now, many will see it one way and other will see it another.

[Roaddog]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye48

Justin Barker was hit in the head from behind and knocked down, then he was stomped on by the entire Jena Six Predator crew, to the point where he was not only unconscious, but was blind in one eye for three weeks. Are you seriously trying to claim he wasn't innocent?

Mr. Barker had nothing to do with the nooses that were hung. He also had nothing to do with the guys that crashed the party at the Fair Barn, and Mr. Barker also had nothing to do with the guy that was chased down and robbed at the convenience store.

I guess he's guilty as sin for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or is he just guilty of saying something Mychal Bell didn't like? Either way it's no reason to feloniously stomp someone.

One things for certian, if you are going to comfront someone you don't have someone sneak up behind them, that shows their intent of what they were going to do. 6 on 1 deserves jail time.