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Old 05-17-2012, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,513 posts, read 37,057,177 times
Reputation: 13985

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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenching View Post
then I take it that it is ok to call alot people on the CD board hoplophobes and to consider their phobia irrational, right?
If the shoe fits....

 
Old 05-17-2012, 09:17 PM
 
23,655 posts, read 17,467,969 times
Reputation: 7471
So take religion out of it all together. I think evolution says it's not right since all it is concerned about is propagation of the species. We are affected by our animal brain as well and unless something goes wrong with it people want to propagate, we are wired that way. Things can go wrong as we see. We are affected by nature AND nurture.

The argument about animals having same gender sex says nothing since animals can have something wrong with them as well. Evolution says breed and that takes a male and a female. Otherwise we get the ewwwwwww effect. Blame evolution.
 
Old 05-17-2012, 09:20 PM
 
2,873 posts, read 5,836,370 times
Reputation: 4342
Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144 View Post
So take religion out of it all together. I think evolution says it's not right since all it is concerned about is propagation of the species. We are affected by our animal brain as well and unless something goes wrong with it people want to propagate, we are wired that way. Things can go wrong as we see. We are affected by nature AND nurture.

The argument about animals having same gender sex says nothing since animals can have something wrong with them as well. Evolution says breed and that takes a male and a female. Otherwise we get the ewwwwwww effect. Blame evolution.
So you're back to saying people should be tested and monitored for fertility before being allowed to get married. Because either marriage is about breeding or marriage is about partnership (and sometimes, but not always, involves breeding). Again, you can't deny SOME groups the right to be married because they can't breed and not other groups.

I think you're on track to creating the world of the Handmaid's Tale
 
Old 05-17-2012, 09:27 PM
 
Location: WA
4,242 posts, read 8,760,686 times
Reputation: 2375
Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144 View Post
So take religion out of it all together. I think evolution says it's not right since all it is concerned about is propagation of the species. We are affected by our animal brain as well and unless something goes wrong with it people want to propagate, we are wired that way. Things can go wrong as we see. We are affected by nature AND nurture.

The argument about animals having same gender sex says nothing since animals can have something wrong with them as well. Evolution says breed and that takes a male and a female. Otherwise we get the ewwwwwww effect. Blame evolution.
Nope, Homosexuality is rampant in the animal kingdom for a reason. It can operate in group selection*: it helps the survival of the group since homosexual couples often adopt relative's offspring and raise them.
There are many other examples of things that seem counterintuitive because they don't help the individual; behaviors such as warning calls in prairie dogs and herding behavior don't help the individual, but they do help the group.

Think about the extreme version of group selection in honeybees: most of the worker bees never reproduce at all. But they all work together to raise queen's offspring. I guess that would make them all lesbians? Polygamists?

Breeding in the animal kingdom also doesn't necessarily take a male and female. Earth Worms are hermaphroditic. Many animals can reproduce asexually. And then there's the animals that can switch genders during their lifetime.

And don't get me started on plants. They are Class A Whores.

*It also operates in establishing dominance in social animals: Lots of animals of the same sex "greet" with oral sex or play with each other's genitals to strengthen relationships.
 
Old 05-17-2012, 09:28 PM
 
23,655 posts, read 17,467,969 times
Reputation: 7471
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParallelJJCat View Post
So you're back to saying people should be tested and monitored for fertility before being allowed to get married. Because either marriage is about breeding or marriage is about partnership (and sometimes, but not always, involves breeding). Again, you can't deny SOME groups the right to be married because they can't breed and not other groups.

I think you're on track to creating the world of the Handmaid's Tale
Marriage = one man & one woman. Having babies is the most important part of it. Evolution and religion says it is. Don't blame me, I didn't set it up that way.

If homosexuality was good don't you think most people would celebrate it and we would not be having any problems with it?
 
Old 05-17-2012, 09:33 PM
 
23,655 posts, read 17,467,969 times
Reputation: 7471
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlenextyear View Post
Nope, Homosexuality is rampant in the animal kingdom for a reason. It can operate in group selection*: it helps the survival of the group since homosexual couples often adopt relative's offspring and raise them.
There are many other examples of things that seem counterintuitive because they don't help the individual; behaviors such as warning calls in prairie dogs and herding behavior don't help the individual, but they do help the group.

Think about the extreme version of group selection in honeybees: most of the worker bees never reproduce at all. But they all work together to raise queen's offspring. I guess that would make them all lesbians? Polygamists?

Breeding in the animal kingdom also doesn't necessarily take a male and female. Earth Worms are hermaphroditic. Many animals can reproduce asexually. And then there's the animals that can switch genders during their lifetime.

And don't get me started on plants. They are Class A Whores.

*It also operates in establishing dominance in social animals: Lots of animals of the same sex "greet" with oral sex or play with each other's genitals to strengthen relationships.
But bottom line is we are not animals or worms. As for the last paragraph, lets not even go there. Egads. Is that next?
 
Old 05-17-2012, 09:34 PM
 
Location: WA
4,242 posts, read 8,760,686 times
Reputation: 2375
"If women's suffrage was good don't you think most people would celebrate it and we would not be having any problems with it?"

Could be a quote from 1910, couldn't it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144 View Post
Marriage = one man & one woman. Having babies is the most important part of it. Evolution and religion says it is. Don't blame me, I didn't set it up that way.

If homosexuality was good don't you think most people would celebrate it and we would not be having any problems with it?
 
Old 05-17-2012, 09:35 PM
 
2,873 posts, read 5,836,370 times
Reputation: 4342
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlenextyear View Post
Nope, Homosexuality is rampant in the animal kingdom for a reason. It can operate in group selection*: it helps the survival of the group since homosexual couples often adopt relative's offspring and raise them.
There are many other examples of things that seem counterintuitive because they don't help the individual; behaviors such as warning calls in prairie dogs and herding behavior don't help the individual, but they do help the group.
Yep. There's a basic misunderstanding of evolution at work here. Evolution is about passing on genes, yes. But they don't necessarily have to be your genes...they can be the genes of close kin. Which is where homosexuality comes into play. By helping in other aspects of the group or herd, they increase the odds of their family genes being based on. So evolution supports homosexuality.
 
Old 05-17-2012, 09:37 PM
 
4,042 posts, read 3,522,864 times
Reputation: 1968
Mercy! I really never thought about it as a question. I guess nothing's wrong with having a fear, but something is wrong with calling hundreds of millions of folks "phobic" when they just disagree with something. Heck, they may find it absolutely disgusting and do not "fear" it-- it being homosexuality, as if most readers didn't know this.
 
Old 05-17-2012, 09:39 PM
 
2,873 posts, read 5,836,370 times
Reputation: 4342
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlenextyear View Post
"If women's suffrage was good don't you think most people would celebrate it and we would not be having any problems with it?"

Could be a quote from 1910, couldn't it.

Thank you, you saved me from saying it.

And in the past there were cultures where homosexuality was treated as just a normal variation. There were other cultures were it was actually celebrated and homosexuals had special roles within the group. In some cultures this is still true. In our own culture homosexuality is much more accepted than it once was.

Most of this country was at one point against giving African-Americans rights and against giving women rights.
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