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Old 05-19-2012, 08:41 PM
 
8,091 posts, read 5,908,581 times
Reputation: 1578

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Again.....where do you draw the line????

I can walk around naked??? It isn't hurting anybody....

I can pee in a cup at a restaurant and drink it even while many other couples are dining? It isn't hurting anybody but me....if its even doing that

I can stand outside on the sidewalk everyday from 5pm to 5am just looking at your house? It isn't hurting anybody.

Why can't I watch porn on the train? It's not hurting anybody....

Why can't I have sex in public.....it's not hurting anybody

Why can't I let my dog lick peanut butter off my hind parts in the privacy of my own home? I mean....if he decides to do engage he is making a decision, no? It's not hurting anybody, right?

 
Old 05-19-2012, 08:41 PM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,456,919 times
Reputation: 12597
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
I think anyone who has had plastic surgury for cosmetic purposes should be barred fron beauty contests, that includes trans-genders.
Sexual reassignment surgery goes far beyond just cosmetic effects. It's also designed to change the body's functions during sex and other aspects that are particularly difficult for trans people to deal with--such as menstruating in the case of a female-to-male transsexual. SRS eliminates that whole process.
 
Old 05-19-2012, 08:47 PM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,456,919 times
Reputation: 12597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post
Again.....where do you draw the line????

I can walk around naked??? It isn't hurting anybody....
This varies culturally. In cultures where nudity is accepted, there are no recorded averse psychological effects. In cultures where nudity represents sex, exposure to nudity has similar effects to childhood sexual abuse.

Quote:
I can pee in a cup at a restaurant and drink it even while many other couples are dining? It isn't hurting anybody but me....if its even doing that
You peeing in a cup in public raises the aforementioned issue of public nudity.

Quote:
I can stand outside on the sidewalk everyday from 5pm to 5am just looking at your house? It isn't hurting anybody.
Yep, go ahead.

Quote:
Why can't I watch porn on the train? It's not hurting anybody....
Exposing children to porn can have similar effects to childhood sexual abuse.

Quote:
Why can't I have sex in public.....it's not hurting anybody
See above--also true for actual sex. Ever heard of exhibitionism? It's a form of sexual abuse when the people observing the sex aren't consenting.

Quote:
Why can't I let my dog lick peanut butter off my hind parts in the privacy of my own home? I mean....if he decides to do engage he is making a decision, no? It's not hurting anybody, right?
Trying to figure out how you'd get peanut butter on your butt to begin with, lol. But assuming you had a bit on your butt, not near your anus, then this wouldn't be very different from licking peanut butter off your arm. Peanut butter near your anus would present a health risk.

Most transsexuals fly under the radar as men and women. You don't even have to know about their trans status if you're not dating/having sex with them. As a result, it really does not compare to all your examples of public sex. There's nothing about transsexuality that flaunts sex publicly. Even if someone is "readable" as trans, that still does not equate to watching porn in public/peeing in public (which requires exposing your parts)/having sex in public.

Sometimes people think I'm a girl. Sometimes they think I'm a guy. Either way, all that is needed is whatever transaction we have (ordering a coffee, assistance on the metro, etc.) and they don't need to know about what genitals I have or any other bits of my personal medical history. I don't bother to correct them, because what's the point in the 5 seconds we will be communicating? I probably won't ever run into this person again.

Would you share that kind of personal information if you were entering a contest where it's not relevant? Say you're a woman and you had a full hysterectomy due to ovarian cysts or something of that sort. Would you feel the need to share that with the judges? Why should a transsexual have to share her SRS? It's along the same lines of privacy.

All of that is information that only becomes relevant if you get to know someone, or if you plan on entering a relationship with them. Otherwise, there is absolutely no reason you need to know about what gonads someone has or used to have.
 
Old 05-19-2012, 09:02 PM
 
32,062 posts, read 15,040,845 times
Reputation: 13664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post
Again.....where do you draw the line????

I can walk around naked??? It isn't hurting anybody....

I can pee in a cup at a restaurant and drink it even while many other couples are dining? It isn't hurting anybody but me....if its even doing that

I can stand outside on the sidewalk everyday from 5pm to 5am just looking at your house? It isn't hurting anybody.

Why can't I watch porn on the train? It's not hurting anybody....

Why can't I have sex in public.....it's not hurting anybody

Why can't I let my dog lick peanut butter off my hind parts in the privacy of my own home? I mean....if he decides to do engage he is making a decision, no? It's not hurting anybody, right?

These are stupid analogies. Although I wouldn't care if you did these things. But you really don't get it. If I was born a women but felt like I should be a man and I had the feelings and desires of a man, why is that wrong for me. Why should I be denied my feelings and what i do about it. We're not talking about you so why do you care. My life wouldn't affect you. But it is my life not yours. I'm not sure why you don't understand that
 
Old 05-19-2012, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Here
2,887 posts, read 2,633,912 times
Reputation: 1981
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
No one gets to tell you how you feel. That's up to you. The fact you feel this way is your right.

By the same token, you don't get to tell people how they feel. That is up to them--including transsexual people, who have the right to identity as whatever gender they please.
They can self identify as whatever or whoever they please all they want. Either way it’s an intentional counterfeit deception and if they want to fool themselves fine, just don’t expect or demand that society indulge or participate in his or its deceptive delusion just because this particular individual wants to be surgically altered to resemble a female. A counterfeit $100 bill does not make it legitimate or legal tender just because it resembles real money either. It’s fake and bogus. If anyone wants or prefers to see a beauty contest with only the genuine female article they have the right to do so.
 
Old 05-19-2012, 09:09 PM
 
8,091 posts, read 5,908,581 times
Reputation: 1578
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
This varies culturally. In cultures where nudity is accepted, there are no recorded averse psychological effects. In cultures where nudity represents sex, exposure to nudity has similar effects to childhood sexual abuse.



You peeing in a cup in public raises the aforementioned issue of public nudity.



Yep, go ahead.



Exposing children to porn can have similar effects to childhood sexual abuse.



See above--also true for actual sex. Ever heard of exhibitionism? It's a form of sexual abuse when the people observing the sex aren't consenting.



Trying to figure out how you'd get peanut butter on your butt to begin with, lol. But assuming you had a bit on your butt, not near your anus, then this wouldn't be very different from licking peanut butter off your arm. Peanut butter near your anus would present a health risk.

Most transsexuals fly under the radar as men and women. You don't even have to know about their trans status if you're not dating/having sex with them. As a result, it really does not compare to all your examples of public sex. There's nothing about transsexuality that flaunts sex publicly. Even if someone is "readable" as trans, that still does not equate to watching porn in public/peeing in public (which requires exposing your parts)/having sex in public.

Sometimes people think I'm a girl. Sometimes they think I'm a guy. Either way, all that is needed is whatever transaction we have (ordering a coffee, assistance on the metro, etc.) and they don't need to know about what genitals I have or any other bits of my personal medical history. I don't bother to correct them, because what's the point in the 5 seconds we will be communicating? I probably won't ever run into this person again.

Would you share that kind of personal information if you were entering a contest where it's not relevant? Say you're a woman and you had a full hysterectomy due to ovarian cysts or something of that sort. Would you feel the need to share that with the judges? Why should a transsexual have to share her SRS? It's along the same lines of privacy.

All of that is information that only becomes relevant if you get to know someone, or if you plan on entering a relationship with them. Otherwise, there is absolutely no reason you need to know about what gonads someone has or used to have.
I feel compelled to share a story with you....because you (I believe it was you, maybe another poster in this thread) asked me if I have ever been around transsexuals or encountered any...

I grew up about 20-25 minutes from midtown Manhattan..I was in the city every weekend during my adolescence and early/mid 20's... I have been around the LBGT community all my life. Not including some family...none that are transgender, however.

But...where I grew up (Carteret, NJ) I knew a homosexual male who was VERY feminine and actually went through the trans process once he became an adult, however, he was dressing as a female WELL before then.

Carteret is a VERY small town in central/northern NJ...Now, there were several guys who were known to have engaged this tranny...knowingly....but after the trans process he looked very much feminine and it was at this point that he was luring unsuspecting new faces in the area...

And everybody knew.....this became his routine....he was also a prostitute...

Now, in addition to that.. I encountered him at a strip club I frequented about 5 years ago. He was dancing....as a woman...Now in a dark club the average man would neverrrr know because he had so much work done. His body was actually impressive by a females standards. And this strip bar was very well regarded for having top quality talent...A list females.

But when she came up to me (I was also with group of co-workers) I knew the face after a double or triple take... And I called him out by name... And I let the bartenders, managers and the bouncers know that it was in fact a man...And luckily, for me, that there was somebody from my local stomping ground to confirm. And the man (now a woman) was very distraught over the incident and he ran back to the dressing room crying...because he knew.

But I felt the need to bring it to attention because I honestly did not want any man in there to be suckered in...He has done it to many, many passing through Carteret in the day....

We seen this boy, who we all knew from Day 1, turn into a woman before our eyes and totally dupe men. Anybody who grew up as an adolescent in Carteret, NJ in the 90's knows exactly who I am talking about.

And I actually thank that I've witnessed such an event in my life because it made me very conscious at an early age to know that you have to stay on your toes.

But one other reason I bring this to light is because I knew the guy when he was really young.. I believe I met him around 3rd or 4th grade...

So I seen him go through puberty then a young gay boy then transition into a woman and the process is not a short one... It a long taxing one...How can you dedicate yourself to prosperity, financially and socially, while the process drains so much resource and time? And anybody who dedicates that much time...and effort...to undo what was biologically predetermined....has some VERY serious issues...
 
Old 05-19-2012, 09:29 PM
 
3,201 posts, read 3,856,223 times
Reputation: 1047
It would be frightening to discover the goalie enveloping the entire net.

I prefer not to see an armadillo where there is not supposed to be an armadillo.
 
Old 05-19-2012, 09:50 PM
 
32,062 posts, read 15,040,845 times
Reputation: 13664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post
I feel compelled to share a story with you....because you (I believe it was you, maybe another poster in this thread) asked me if I have ever been around transsexuals or encountered any...

I grew up about 20-25 minutes from midtown Manhattan..I was in the city every weekend during my adolescence and early/mid 20's... I have been around the LBGT community all my life. Not including some family...none that are transgender, however.

But...where I grew up (Carteret, NJ) I knew a homosexual male who was VERY feminine and actually went through the trans process once he became an adult, however, he was dressing as a female WELL before then.

Carteret is a VERY small town in central/northern NJ...Now, there were several guys who were known to have engaged this tranny...knowingly....but after the trans process he looked very much feminine and it was at this point that he was luring unsuspecting new faces in the area...

And everybody knew.....this became his routine....he was also a prostitute...

Now, in addition to that.. I encountered him at a strip club I frequented about 5 years ago. He was dancing....as a woman...Now in a dark club the average man would neverrrr know because he had so much work done. His body was actually impressive by a females standards. And this strip bar was very well regarded for having top quality talent...A list females.

But when she came up to me (I was also with group of co-workers) I knew the face after a double or triple take... And I called him out by name... And I let the bartenders, managers and the bouncers know that it was in fact a man...And luckily, for me, that there was somebody from my local stomping ground to confirm. And the man (now a woman) was very distraught over the incident and he ran back to the dressing room crying...because he knew.

But I felt the need to bring it to attention because I honestly did not want any man in there to be suckered in...He has done it to many, many passing through Carteret in the day....

We seen this boy, who we all knew from Day 1, turn into a woman before our eyes and totally dupe men. Anybody who grew up as an adolescent in Carteret, NJ in the 90's knows exactly who I am talking about.

And I actually thank that I've witnessed such an event in my life because it made me very conscious at an early age to know that you have to stay on your toes.

But one other reason I bring this to light is because I knew the guy when he was really young.. I believe I met him around 3rd or 4th grade...

So I seen him go through puberty then a young gay boy then transition into a woman and the process is not a short one... It a long taxing one...How can you dedicate yourself to prosperity, financially and socially, while the process drains so much resource and time? And anybody who dedicates that much time...and effort...to undo what was biologically predetermined....has some VERY serious issues...




Omg how sad for him and what you did to him. What exactly did he know. You've known him since 3rd grade and could have been a good friend and supported him. He isn't the one with the issues. He was trying to be true to himself regardless of the body he was born with. That takes a lot of guts and courage because he has to deal with people like you. You are the one with issues for feeling superior and making him feel like a second class citizen. My god, how can you do that to someone. How can you humiliate him like that. You are no better than anyone else on this earth. You have issues with prejudice so I suggest you work on them before you judge others. Are you in the south because that prejudice seems to still be alive there. I'm from the south so I can say that. lol
 
Old 05-19-2012, 09:52 PM
 
8,091 posts, read 5,908,581 times
Reputation: 1578
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
[/b]



Omg how sad for him and what you did to him. What exactly did he know. You've known him since 3rd grade and could have been a good friend and supported him. He isn't the one with the issues. He was trying to be true to himself regardless of the body he was born with. That takes a lot of guts and courage because he has to deal with people like you. You are the one with issues for feeling superior and making him feel like a second class citizen. My god, how can you do that to someone. How can you humiliate him like that. You are no better than anyone else on this earth. You have issues with prejudice so I suggest you work on them before you judge others. Are you in the south because that prejudice seems to still be alive there. I'm from the south so I can say that. lol

If you read my entire post...you would know. Because I said, several times, I grew up 25 minutes from midtown Manhattan in Carteret, NJ. So you're going to hold it against me for how I shunned him when I was 9 years old? LOL

I mean even as I got older...I really didn't care for the dude. Especially when I found out how he was carrying himself. I understand it may seem like the insensitive thing to do. But sometimes some people need to figure it out for themselves.
 
Old 05-19-2012, 09:57 PM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,456,919 times
Reputation: 12597
Quote:
Originally Posted by JobZombie View Post
They can self identify as whatever or whoever they please all they want. Either way it’s an intentional counterfeit deception and if they want to fool themselves fine, just don’t expect or demand that society indulge or participate in his or its deceptive delusion just because this particular individual wants to be surgically altered to resemble a female. A counterfeit $100 bill does not make it legitimate or legal tender just because it resembles real money either. It’s fake and bogus. If anyone wants or prefers to see a beauty contest with only the genuine female article they have the right to do so.
There are recorded differences in the brains of transgender people, where certain glands and areas of the brain are more similar to people of the opposite biological sex, compared with cisgender (non-trans) people. In other words, the brain has female and male patterns, and trans people often have the brain patterns of the opposite sex (compared to their gonads)--owing a medical explanation to transsexuality, not rooted in self-deception. Again you don't get to decide what is fake and bogus when it comes to another person's innermost feelings, just like no one can tell you your inner feelings about who you are are bogus--especially when those feelings are backed up by neuropsychological research. In any case, how would you propose going about making sure everyone had female genitalia congenitally? Would you insist on some kind of medical screening for any sex-segrated contests? Should we take MRI's of their brains while we're at it, to determine if they have a male or female brain?
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