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Old 05-22-2012, 12:05 PM
 
29,409 posts, read 21,914,498 times
Reputation: 5455

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
The U.S. Preventive Services Task Force which made the recomendation was created by Ronald Reagan

The findings about prostate cancer came from Bush era (2002)

You can always check your own prostate chief.
I don't care who created the task force it as that is not the point. If one wants a prostate exam from an untrained individual I'm sure booking a flight on an airline would get the job done.

You lefties who scream about how obamacare would help all those poor souls to pay for preventive care are now screaming we don't even need it.
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Old 05-22-2012, 12:17 PM
 
3,484 posts, read 2,860,507 times
Reputation: 2354
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
Show me something....anything.....from Fox News that is making the same statements that i'm making. You won't find it because i'm speaking from experience in DC affairs, not from some far flung office in the corner of nowhere watching Fox News all day.

I've lived, worked, solicited, and lobbied for work in DC for far too long. It may not make sense to you, I get that, but that doesn't mean what i'm saying is inaccurate or overblown.
The general Obama's healthcare (which is nearly exactly like that of Romney's plan) rant is standard from Fox News.

I am sick and tired of hearing from Reps that the problem with our health care system isn't that the private sector that largely runs it is just fine but when the government tries to regulate it that will ruin everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
I don't care who created the task force it as that is not the point. If one wants a prostate exam from an untrained individual I'm sure booking a flight on an airline would get the job done.

You lefties who scream about how obamacare would help all those poor souls to pay for preventive care are now screaming we don't even need it.
That would be the scientists. You know the people who aren't Republican ideologues beholden to corporate interests who don't give a damn if people die just as long as they get their third house.

This is a scientific decision not a political one. It's certainly not for some half trained halfwit answering the phones at your local health care insurance company to answer.
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Old 05-22-2012, 12:20 PM
 
29,409 posts, read 21,914,498 times
Reputation: 5455
You trust government appointed flunkies who don't give a damn, the same ones who have been telling us for the last twenty years that catching it early is the way to go. Now it's the other way around and you fools stop, about face and carry on like your told.
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Old 05-22-2012, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,877,288 times
Reputation: 5661
This is done all the time. It's called cost/benefit analysis. If the risk of a procedure is higher than the expected benefit, the procedure shouldn't be done. The Hippocratic oath says "do no harm."
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Old 05-22-2012, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Florida
76,855 posts, read 47,182,410 times
Reputation: 14731
Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
I don't care who created the task force it as that is not the point. If one wants a prostate exam from an untrained individual I'm sure booking a flight on an airline would get the job done.
Or you can take a class at Penn State.

Quote:
You lefties who scream about how obamacare would help all those poor souls to pay for preventive care are now screaming we don't even need it
The point is that you tried to associate it to obamacare, and failed. Also, I don't think the panel is right or left, it's just a medical panel.

If you want your prostate removed for no reason, you can do it with your own money. The PSA test resulted in a lot of guys having their prostates removed when it was not necessary, and now they are impotent. I think Reagan's panel made the right call on this one.

I am curious why you embraced the panel's recommendation to perform PSA tests, but you do not embrace it when they change their recommendation based on better information. Both came from the same panel.
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Old 05-22-2012, 12:26 PM
 
Location: CHicago, United States
6,933 posts, read 8,457,623 times
Reputation: 3510
Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
You trust government appointed flunkies who don't give a damn, the same ones who have been telling us for the last twenty years that catching it early is the way to go. Now it's the other way around and you fools stop, about face and carry on like your told.
I suspect you don't have a primary care physican who manages your health care. If true, that's unfortunate. I have an excellent physician who reads all of the available literature, reports, etc., which may pertain to my health and then makes a recommendation. I also do some independent reading of my own. After all of this I weigh what has been said/written and I make the decision. There's no "death panel" and nobody forcing you to do or not do something. If you're seeing little green men, or other creatures, which you believe are about to cart you away ... I can suggest the reason they might want to do that. Give it up. Grow up. Move on to something you can talk about with some degree of information and intelligence. That's how I see the discussion thus far.
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Old 05-22-2012, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,877,288 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
You trust government appointed flunkies who don't give a damn, the same ones who have been telling us for the last twenty years that catching it early is the way to go. Now it's the other way around and you fools stop, about face and carry on like your told.
I trust government appointees, who are ultimately beholden to the people, far more than I trust corporate flunkies who are only beholden to the profits.

If a test statistically causes 5 deaths per thousand but will only save 4 patients per thousand, the test's risks outweigh its benefits. End of story. Trying to make this an indictment against Obama or viewing this as part of a vast conspiracy is nuts.
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Old 05-22-2012, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,710,646 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
This is done all the time. It's called cost/benefit analysis. If the risk of a procedure is higher than the expected benefit, the procedure shouldn't be done. The Hippocratic oath says "do no harm."
But, it is easier to label self and run around screaming as a "fiscal conservative" than to indulge in such monstrosities as cost/benefit analysis, fiscal responsibility and identifying key areas of waste and using them for proposals to reduce costs.
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Old 05-22-2012, 12:48 PM
 
23,838 posts, read 23,032,740 times
Reputation: 9407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Or you can take a class at Penn State.

The point is that you tried to associate it to obamacare, and failed. Also, I don't think the panel is right or left, it's just a medical panel.

If you want your prostate removed for no reason, you can do it with your own money. The PSA test resulted in a lot of guys having their prostates removed when it was not necessary, and now they are impotent. I think Reagan's panel made the right call on this one.

I am curious why you embraced the panel's recommendation to perform PSA tests, but you do not embrace it when they change their recommendation based on better information. Both came from the same panel.
The panel itself is not partisan. That's never been the claim. The claim is that the findings of the panel are not merely thrown at the public without first being vetted through political filters at HHS, CDC, and ultimately the White House (because political appointees are involved).

Had the findings been detrimental to Obamacare or any other government sanctioned medical apparatus, these findings would have been deemed "further review is necessary" and shelved until after the election.

That's how Washington works. I could go on and on about the politics of submitting briefings for White House review, but none of you would believe it because it's coming from me. Instead, I invite you to learn more about the White House Office of Management and Budget, and try your darndest to figure out how that office works directly with Executive Branch agencies and beyond to control the message.
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Old 05-22-2012, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,710,646 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
The panel itself is not partisan.
Prove their findings wrong, or present one that does, instead of mindless push of your personal agenda.
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