Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think my bisexual cousin said it best, people know she is black the moment they look at her, but they don't know she is bisexual unless she tells them. According to her, there is more racism in the gay community than it is let on and she also has to deal with people saying she is confused because she is bi. I think what people have to realize is they did not go through everything that we went through, specifically in America. The problem is many groups, not just gays, only seem to want to unite with blacks when it benefits them. With that being said, I still think it is foolish to not want gays to get married. Have we had experiences that our similar? Yes, but our experiences is not exactly the same as people make it out to be.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but there isn't any more correlation of "discrimination" between blacks and gays than there are with humans with two eye balls. Just about any common ground that they've found with blacks, they can find with any subjugated minority. But the fact of the matter is, they chose the "black struggle" because it's the easiest and most lucrative struggle to piggyback on.
As for the marriage issue--I'm against it personally. I generally believe that it simply contributes to this normalization process that will erase whatever ambiguity (good or bad) that we have between men and women. I mean the very idea really does promote that there are no differences between the sexes, especially if their partnerships become institutionalized. Heck, you can see some of the ramifications already when a Transexual attempted to run for Miss America.
"Repeating what has been a rallying cry of gay activism for years, the cover of the December 16, 2008 issue of The Advocate announced, “Gay is the New Black: The Last Great Civil Rights Struggle.” Last week, on May 19th, headlines across the nation announced, “NAACP endorses gay marriage as ‘civil right.’” So, is gay the new black?"
"There are prominent black leaders who say yes, including Congressman John Lewis, who was active in the early Civil Rights movement. There are other prominent black leaders who say no, like Timothy F. Johnson, founder and president of the Frederick Douglass Foundation."
1) Nobody is comparing behavior to skin color. Fist off, sexual orientation is not a behavior. That said, nobody is even comparing skin color to sexual orientation. What's being compared is how our civil, secular laws discriminate(d) against and treat(ed) people of color as well as gay people unequally - often in similar ways.
2) The mistreatment of gay people throughout the history of the US is arguable as bad as the mistreatment of black people throughout the history of the US. But even if you're not willing to accept that, what does it matter which group was treated worse. Civil rights and equal treatment under the law are not contingent upon reaching some additive threshold level of mistreatment.
3) Sexual orientation is immutable in the same way skin color is immutable. But again, why does ability or inability of a person's sexual orientation to mutate even matter? Religion is 100% choice, yet our laws can't arbitrarily discriminate based on that personal characteristic either.
4) Removing bans on interracial marriage did redefine marriage every bit as much as removing bans on same-sex marriage does. Civil marriage is separate from any particular religious or traditional definition of marriage. Civil marriage is defined entirely and exclusively by civil marriage law. Any reworking of civil marriage law is a redefinition of civil marriage.
Sexual orientation is based on sexual behavior. And behavior is learned, and reinforced.
Sexual orientation is not immutable. Sexual orientation is quite mutable.
Quote:
Contrary to popular opinion, there is no reputable scientific evidence that people are born gay or lesbian. Even the unabashedly pro-gay American Psychiatric Association stated that, “to date there are no replicated scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology for homosexuality.” As expressed bluntly by lesbian author Camille Paglia, “No one is born gay. The idea is ridiculous.”
Marriage wasn't redefined when marriage between blacks and whites was lifted in the south. You should know it was every bit legal in the northern states, asians could marry whites, and native americans could as well, it only applied to black people.
You didn't read the brilliant article that was posted along with this thread, it clearly outlines that marriage wasn't redefined when blacks and whites were able to marry legally in the southern states.
Quote:
Marriage between a black person and a white person always included the two essential elements of marriage, namely a man and a woman (as opposed to just two people), and as a general rule, interracial marriage could naturally produce children and then provide those children with a mother and father. In contrast, same-sex “marriage” cannot produce children naturally and can never provide children with both a mother and father. (Another newsflash: Two dads or two moms do not equal a mom and a dad.)
Sexual orientation is based on sexual behavior. And behavior is learned, and reinforced.
Nonsense. Sexual orientation is an innate, inherent characteristic. It's not based on behavior. I was gay long before I ever had gay sex, and you were straight long before you were penetrated by a man. If anything, it's the opposite of what you say. Sexual behavior is based on sexual orientation.
And if my homosexuality was learned behavior, pray tell, where did I learn it from?
Quote:
Sexual orientation is not immutable. Sexual orientation is quite mutable.
No, it's not. But again, why does this even matter? It's not really relevant to the civil rights debate.
Quote:
Marriage wasn't redefined when marriage between blacks and whites was lifted in the south. You should know it was every bit legal in the northern states, asians could marry whites, and native americans could as well, it only applied to black people.
Again. Civil marriage is defined entirely and exclusively by civil marriage law. If the law goes from banning blacks and white from marrying to allowing blacks and whites to marry, then civil marriage HAS been redefined. Period. That's black and white (pun intended).
Sexual orientation is based on sexual behavior. And behavior is learned, and reinforced.
So how do you explain people who are only turned on by their own gender, without having any sort of idea there are others in the world out there like them existed?
1) Nobody is comparing behavior to skin color. Fist off, sexual orientation is not a behavior. That said, nobody is even comparing skin color to sexual orientation......
Again. Civil marriage is defined entirely and exclusively by civil marriage law. If the law goes from banning blacks and white from marrying to allowing blacks and whites to marry, then civil marriage HAS been redefined.
It hasn't been redefined, because marriage is between one male, and one female. That didn't change and it wasn't redefined because it removed the barrier for black people to marry white people. That's not a redefinition of marriage, if it was a redefinition of marriage you'd have to prove that white people are different from black people, the only differences are superficial and cosmetic. A black and a white marrying is still going to be between male and female so it's not a redefinition of marriage.
Same sex marriage redefines marriage, because it removes the barrier for two people of the same sex to marry. Marriage is traditionally defined as an opposite sex union.
Actually the whole "gay thing" is pretty much played out and once they can marry or "civil union" it won't be an issue to most people unless they are still shocked or titillated by the idea.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
