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Old 05-22-2012, 01:30 PM
 
147 posts, read 144,837 times
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By my observation, America is not cracking up the way other countries crack up - that is, along racial, ethnic, or religious lines.

Instead it seems to be cracking up in two ways that are somewhat at odds with each other. First, it is cracking up along lines of education, marriage, and wealth. See Charles Murray's "Coming Apart" for details. This is counter-intuitive. Those whom we think of as the "liberal elites" are by and large going to college, landing good jobs, getting married, staying married, and living stable lives along with traditionalists in the same group. And with much of the middle class returning to lower socio-economic status, we find a larger and growing population that is, well, increasingly dysfunctional in many ways. So the end result is an emerging two-tier society.

The second fault line is ideological, and this cuts across both of the aforementioned groups. We have traditional, family-oriented, and religious folks on one side, whom I'll call "traditionalists". And on the other side we have the secularists - mainly hedonists, lost in pop culture. This is a serious and growing divide that is somewhat obscured because the classes on each side don't talk to each other much.

And so that makes four distinct groups. I'll list them in the order of size, from largest to smallest, according to my best guess: 1) secularist lower class; 2) secularist elite; 3) traditionalist lower class; 4) traditionalist elite. So far as I can tell, the divisions are growing, not shrinking.

Get ready for four Americas.
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Old 05-22-2012, 01:40 PM
 
147 posts, read 144,837 times
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I would add that the largest and fastest growing group - lower class secularists/hedonists - is poised to do a lot of damage in society and seems to be virtually unreachable. The coercive methods used to civilize such people in the distant past don't set well with us anymore. How society (insofar as we still have one) chooses to manage this group is of utmost importance.
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Old 05-22-2012, 01:52 PM
 
Location: The Other California
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It seems likely to me that group #2 will fight to keep group #1 on the plantation, and will be setting the rules from henceforth.
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Old 05-22-2012, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,538,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles45 View Post



Get ready for four Americas.

OK...


rummage, scurry, scamper...


Ready!

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Old 05-22-2012, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Fiorina "Fury" 161
3,531 posts, read 3,733,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles45 View Post
I would add that the largest and fastest growing group - lower class secularists/hedonists - is poised to do a lot of damage in society and seems to be virtually unreachable. The coercive methods used to civilize such people in the distant past don't set well with us anymore. How society (insofar as we still have one) chooses to manage this group is of utmost importance.
They (lower class secularists) have taken control of the message, and the medium. How is this possible? They are aided by the secularist elite, who have always fought for injustices (some of it justified) and have been working toward said causes for longer than the LCSs. In the past, these issues dealt with racial, ethnic, or religious lines, but the truly hard parts of those issues have, more or less, largely been solved. Racial tensions aren't what they used to be and the influence of the Church has essentially been dismantled as the common bond of the nation. So they have moved on to the LCSs and taken up their causes.

Typically, and I will focus on four, the secularist elite are in positions in education, the media, social services, and family law, all of which cater to the secularist lower class. Some of these functions were previous functions of the community, family and Church, backed by social norms and etiquette. With the traditional injustices out of the way, the media, once an institution that sought truth and fought injustice, has turned back to the days of yellow journalism while also picking up the playbook of TMZ and your standard-issue National Inquirer. Social media is a massive factor in this as well. With the availability of instant communication, the media no longer acts as a gatekeeper, simply because they can't. And, sadly, neither do the parents. The adults have no clothes. The media, dealing with its own cuts in funding and ad revenue, is now basically an aggregate for Twitter, Facebook posts and police scanners in order to grab viewers/readers. If it bleeds it leads or is about your favorite celebrity, the postings with the most clicks will surely be broadcast--daily. Hence the intense focus on everything and anything criminal. It's trending here? It must be news. "Read all about it." The problem is, the individuals clicking on the most hedonist topics they can find are 12-year-olds with cell phones, those who are just curious, and basically anyone around the world. Humans are naturally curious. The media stamps an undue importance on a number and claims it's what most people care about, or are supposed to care about. Online behavior which previously would have been unacceptable, at anytime in society, morphs into behavior offline and becomes normalized, aided, of course, by any minor or adult on the Internet. Enter faux outrage.

The rise of the LCSs is only possible when a previously strong group, the middle class, who would never have allowed it to happen, was sold out by the economic engine which once supported it, and has been decimated. They are exhausted and distracted and a lot more concerned about just keeping food on the table. In addition, we are entering a time when the results of the 50 percent divorce rate of the Baby Boomers is starting to be seen as these individuals take positions of power and importance in society. Broken homes are no longer just unfortunate events that happen, they are becoming the norm today. Both the LCSs and the secular elitists (regardless of the fact the secular elitists themselves may stay together, according to you) have seized the opportunity to tout this as the new Gold Standard for society since the other model fails 50 percent of the time, supposedly. It's too hard to get people to work and stay together so mitigate the damage and set up services which take over the functions of the family unit. With tax money of course. Furthermore, responsible individuals wait on starting families as they adapt to a changing economy while the LCSs continue to grab power and procreate unabated, expanding their base. With the economy the way it is, the secularist elite no longer have to go overseas to visit a third-world country, it's possible they will have one right here.

I took a look at the clip you posted and I think that it is succinct. The secular elite grew up mainly in an era where most people were married. Quite possibly, newer secularist elite will come from divorced or single-parent homes, and while they're still elite, they will identify with LCSs much more than those from stable middle-class backgrounds. For the first time in history, divorced and non-divorced individuals may essentially be two separate groups with separate values--in the same country. As you may expect, this phenomenon will be largely invisible; it won't have anything to do with race or ethnicity, as relationships are universal.

A good amount of this in all likelihood was inevitable, and you're the lucky one who gets to live through it. America will go on, but it isn't the country you grew up in, and it won't be in the future. Should I still care at this point? It's a nice day and I should enjoy it rather than posting about the destruction of a nation on City-Data. As I see it.
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Old 05-22-2012, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
7,085 posts, read 12,055,553 times
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LoL, from an OP that thinks a theocratic dictatorship is the only way to "Solve America's Problems"?

//www.city-data.com/forum/polit...y-way-out.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
It seems likely to me that group #2 will fight to keep group #1 on the plantation, and will be setting the rules from henceforth.
//www.city-data.com/forum/polit...x-country.html

Plus a poster that thinks a Catholic controlled theocracy is the only way to go?

Sorry, not into anti-american authoritarian loons telling me how they would "fix America" by doing away with democracy and becoming like a Christian Iran/Taliban.
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Old 05-22-2012, 05:23 PM
 
21,989 posts, read 15,713,056 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subsound View Post

Sorry, not into anti-american authoritarian loons telling me how they would "fix America" by doing away with democracy and becoming like a Christian Iran/Taliban.
Exactly. I cannot believe I just read all that.
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Old 05-22-2012, 05:29 PM
 
1,332 posts, read 994,777 times
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Drivel.
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Old 05-22-2012, 06:19 PM
 
147 posts, read 144,837 times
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What an insightful (and disturbing) comment, budgetlord. Wish I could argue with it.

If you have the time this evening, pour yourself a drink and watch this interview with Charles Murray on the subject.


Uncommon Knowledge: White America Is 'Coming Apart' - YouTube

Last edited by Charles45; 05-22-2012 at 06:31 PM..
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Old 05-22-2012, 06:30 PM
 
147 posts, read 144,837 times
Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by subsound View Post
LoL, from an OP that thinks a theocratic dictatorship is the only way to "Solve America's Problems"?

//www.city-data.com/forum/polit...y-way-out.html
Who said anything about "theocratic"? Do you consider any government with an open religious disposition to be "theocratic"?

As for dictatorship, the word is admittedly too provocative, but the point is that the only way anything gets done in a country with an ungovernable population is through the exercise of unitary authority. That's it. It's either unitary authority or the downhill slide continues. Bury your head in the sand if you like.

Wait, there is one other solution: the re-conversion of America to something which resembles the common cultural framework of our national heritage. Don't hold your breath.
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