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You are going way off topic - your deflections are meaningless - as are your ridiculous analogies. Try to stick with the topic UE - which is abortion.
Well, you see, people get all illogical when it comes to sex so that's why we use analogies. They help people such as yourself see why your stance is just as despicable as saying a woman deserves to be raped.
And I will say it yet again, as you seem to be ignoring the fact, there are reasons to engage in sexual relations besides procreation.
We need more reliable/user friendly forms of contraception.......for women AND men.
And.........people shoud be able to get sterilized upon demand......not when a doctor feels they are ready. It is virtually impossible for a young woman without children to find a doctor who will sterilize her. They want women to take responsibility......and then deny her the right to do so.
Men have a much easier time getting sterilized.....why is that?
Women still haven't acquired equality with men.....that's why.
AMEN! Ive been trying since I was 18 to get my plumbing tied up and burned. They wont do it. Not one doctor will touch me because of my age and because I dont have children.
DUH! Thats what Im trying to prevent in the first place!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier
I don't believe there is a law that says that women can't be sterilized before a certain age - so I don't see how you can use that as evidence to support a claim that women don't have equality. Doctors certainly use their discretion based on medical knowledge - and you can likely find a doctor who will do sterilization - so that seems like a weak thread to be clinging on.
So - what is equality?
No, but there are fool that have done law-suits because they had themselves snipped, it wasnt reverseable, and they changed their minds. THAT is what makes it so difficult. Ive been to 4-5 doctors trying to get ONE to agree to touch me.
Sure - but the knowledge that they may not work is still present. That doesn't mean that a new life that is produced through willful action is an "accident" - people who are sexually active know what might happen - the life does not become an accident just because they did not want a baby. They are responsible - and if they are that worried about making a baby and don't trust contraceptives - and think that even by timing things that an "accident" might occur - then they should be celibate.
Oh no Harrier - people can't do that - it is against human nature!"""
Exactly! ,and real world history has proven that.....people all don't operate on your idea of what's right....must cause you terrible heartburn
""Fine, then take responsibility for your actions and bring a life into a world if one is created through what you chose to do. Do not kill an innocent life because you have no self control.
That's a fine philosophy for you....but YOU are not Supreme Ruler....others have their own ways of being responsible and getting an abortion when they don't want a baby IS being responsible.
Well, you see, people get all illogical when it comes to sex so that's why we use analogies. They help people such as yourself see why your stance is just as despicable as saying a woman deserves to be raped.
And I will say it yet again, as you seem to be ignoring the fact, there are reasons to engage in sexual relations besides procreation.
seems the concept of sex without "procreation" tied to it is not something to consider. sounds more like a man made religious value then based on true human nature.
Sure - but the knowledge that they may not work is still present. That doesn't mean that a new life that is produced through willful action is an "accident" - people who are sexually active know what might happen - the life does not become an accident just because they did not want a baby. They are responsible - and if they are that worried about making a baby and don't trust contraceptives - and think that even by timing things that an "accident" might occur - then they should be celibate.
Oh no Harrier - people can't do that - it is against human nature!
Fine, then take responsibility for your actions and bring a life into a world if one is created through what you chose to do. Do not kill an innocent life because you have no self control.
Ah, but did you not just say that people shouldn't have to live in celibacy? Which is your decision, Harrier? Should one be allowed to live freely, have sex freely, and when accidents do happen, have the choice to abort, or should people live in celibacy because it hurts your feelings?
LOL! I mention that there has been a shift in societal values in America over the past 50 years and get told that I don't know history - yet you can claim that women aren't equal with men in this time period? Women have been the dominant gender in countless civilizations throughout human history - they lost that power - and regained it - lost it again. Once again - history is not a linear progression - so you can't sit there and pretend that women have never had equality and still don't - yet berate me for noticing a value shift in modern America - and trying to insinuate that I don't understand that history has always repeated itself. The fact is - the value shift exists and its effects are negative. Forget what people in the past did - what are we going to do now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier
When did I ever say that women are equal with men in this time period?
{see quote above} If you are refuting my claim that women are not treated as equals in this time period......I would say that means you think they are.
Also - define equality. By definition - women and men are not equal - so we had better define what you mean by "equality" before we can have any intelligent discussion on the topic.
Women can vote, hold office, run businesses, be the head of households, own property, serve in the military, ect...
But they cannot get sterilized as easily as men. They have to spend all kinds of money interviewing doctor after doctor after doctor.....with no guarantee of ever finding one who will do the procedure before they run out of money. Doctor's don't treat men as if they are too feeble minded to make that decision on their own.
I don't believe there is a law that says that women can't be sterilized before a certain age - so I don't see how you can use that as evidence to support a claim that women don't have equality. Doctors certainly use their discretion based on medical knowledge - and you can likely find a doctor who will do sterilization - so that seems like a weak thread to be clinging on.
So - what is equality?
Just because there isn't a law against descriminating against women who seek sterilization, it doesn't mean that it does not exist.
If we are going to blame women for not taking responsibility, we need a law requiring doctors to sterilize any adult woman that requests the procedure.
Doctor's are not allowed to deny a service based on race, so why should they be allowed to deny a service based on sex?
If doctors sterilize 25 year old men without children, yet refuse to sterilize 25 year old women without children.....what would you call it?
Just because there isn't a law against descriminating against women who seek sterilization, it doesn't mean that it does not exist.
If we are going to blame women for not taking responsibility, we need a law requiring doctors to sterilize any adult woman that requests the procedure.
Doctor's are not allowed to deny a service based on race, so why should they be allowed to deny a service based on sex?
If doctors sterilize 25 year old men without children, yet refuse to sterilize 25 year old women without children.....what would you call it?
I call it inequality. There's your definition.
seems like elvis, this poster has left the bldg. an easy out
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