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Old 05-23-2012, 09:38 PM
 
Location: planet octupulous is nearing earths atmosphere
13,620 posts, read 12,707,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rikensquire View Post
I guess I should have gone with my "Masterbaters vs. homosexuals" argument, who has the upper hand?


well if the people would just take matters into their own hands something would get done
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Old 05-23-2012, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Clearwater Florida
294 posts, read 350,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cruxan View Post
well if the people would just take matters into their own hands something would get done

Carpal tunnel for all, darnit!!!
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Old 05-23-2012, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,076 posts, read 20,491,882 times
Reputation: 7807
Quote:
Originally Posted by rikensquire View Post
Zacktly!!! Tell me what you truly believe in, somethin'! I hear the non-sense, the real truth would be refreshing.
Frankly, I'm not at all sure I'll vote for Obama this time, but I AM sure I won't vote for Romney.

However, I think Obama has done enough good things to warrant another term. He did prevent the complete collapse of our banking system and economy, though I don't like how he did it. On the other hand, what other choice did he have? Remember, he was the first President in our history to have a deep recession and two wars to deal with on his first day in office. There is literally no other administration with which to compare his actions. Given the condition he found this country in and the condition it's in now, he's actually done pretty well and especially when you consider that he's gotten NO help from the GOP.

In foreign affairs, I think he's been far more successful that Bush ever was or that Romney ever will be. He's marshaled a great international coalition against Iran which may pay off shortly, forced the Israeli's to talk to the Palestinians, ended our combat involvement in Iraq and will soon do the same in Afghanistan. He hasn't shown any hesitation in confronting the looming menace of China, in areas as diverse as trade, currency manipulation and even militarily. He's refocused our foreign policy to the western Pacific and is positioning US forces into areas where they can check Chinese ambitions, such as northern Australia and Singapore. He's drawn us closer to India and farther away from Pakistan, which is a clear-eyed assessment of which nation will be the most important in the future. He's also unleashed our forces against al Queda and has dealt them serious blows, without any restrictions on the use of drones in places like Yemen, Pakistan and Somalia, denying our enemy the refuges they used under Bush. He's committed to the long-standing principle of freedom of movement on the seas and our actions against Somali pirates demonstrates that conclusively.

On the economy, he has a great idea the GOP won't even talk about or allow to come up on the floor: Tax cuts for US businesses who hire at home or who bring jobs back from overseas and tax penalties for those who outsource our jobs. What's wrong with that? If you think a Romney administration will back that idea, guess again.

He also understands that lifting this nation out of the doldrums will require both spending cuts and raising taxes, but the GOP kills any idea of that. He knows that the deficits will go down when the economy improves and more tax revenue comes in, but the GOP doesn't want him to succeed in improving the economy because their first priority has been making sure he doesn't get re-elected. They said so, publicly and clearly, and have followed that mantra even when it harms the country. Also, his administration has overseen the biggest increase in oil and gas production in decades. Right now, there are more rigs drilling than at any time since the 1970's and the deep water wells in the Gulf are going again. Our dependence on foreign oil is going down as we speak. With an eye to the future, he also understands that oil won't last forever and has embarked upon an effort to make other forms of energy production economically viable. Yes, he's made some mistakes, but who wouldn't expect that?

Never forget that when he took office, the nation was ablaze and in danger of collapse. He's fought the fires down to a manageable level, in spite of the GOP running around behind him cutting his hoses at every opportunity. He deserves credit for what he's done and handing power back to those very people who have obstructed him and prolonged our agony for crass political purposes just defies explanation, to me.

On the negative side, he's shown a remarkable lack of leadership on some important issues. Specifically, he left the crafting of his signature effort, health care reform, to Congress and got what anybody should expect from a law drawn up by committee: 2200 pages of special interests. He could have done much better, but it IS better than nothing. He's also allowed himself to manipulated by the Clintonite's within his administration but he seems to have come to an understanding of how much they've hurt him because he's moved most of them out of his inner circle and is now acting with more independence. You'll see more of that in a second term and I expect we'll see the new, real Obama. Every President has to grow into the job and he's coming along nicely in that regard.

That's just for starters. Anything else you want to talk about specifically?
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Old 05-23-2012, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Clearwater Florida
294 posts, read 350,917 times
Reputation: 94
Sorry, I've been going since 5 a.m., while your counterpoint was entertaining, I'll debate it tomorrow. Good night, honorable sir. You stood up, I'm proud of your effort,.
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,076 posts, read 20,491,882 times
Reputation: 7807
Quote:
Originally Posted by rikensquire View Post
Sorry, I've been going since 5 a.m., while your counterpoint was entertaining, I'll debate it tomorrow. Good night, honorable sir. You stood up, I'm proud of your effort,.
Ok. No problem as I'm retired and will probably be here tomorrow.

Sweet dreams of an Obama second term.
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:56 AM
 
Location: Clearwater Florida
294 posts, read 350,917 times
Reputation: 94
Good morning all. Let the mayhem begin!!!
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Old 05-24-2012, 06:36 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
8,396 posts, read 9,428,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rikensquire View Post
Good morning all. Let the mayhem begin!!!

While it's no doubt cathartic to some extent for you to blame your misfortunes on Obama, you know better than to place much weight on that notion.

Here's wishing you better fortunes going forward.
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Old 05-24-2012, 06:54 AM
 
Location: Clearwater Florida
294 posts, read 350,917 times
Reputation: 94
I don't "blame" Obama, I know he's just doing what his supporters wanted done. My point is that I am one of the small fish downstream who was unprepared for what's gone on. I'm looking for someone to articulate just how the next four years will be better with Obama, based on the groundwork we've seen laid so far. I truly understand that the shiitstorm began under Bush, I just don't understand how what has been done, helps recover from that storm.
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Old 05-24-2012, 07:06 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
8,396 posts, read 9,428,218 times
Reputation: 4070
Most of us are small fish. And few were prepared for the storm that struck in Sept 2008. Personally, I've been fortunate to remain employed through this mess. I realize that millions are in your shoes and until folks like you are back at work in appropriate positions, we can't even begin to think that we've recovered.

What's been done is admittedly far too little. It was sufficient to prevent us falling over the edge into another depression, but it was very close. And attempts at a more robust recovery have been blocked by a hyperpartisan congress. Their party proposes to do the same thing they did before, which is what precipitated the crisis four years ago.

They simply cannot be trusted to govern until they divorce themselves from the irrational religious right and begin behaving as adults again.
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Old 05-24-2012, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Clearwater Florida
294 posts, read 350,917 times
Reputation: 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by skoro View Post
Most of us are small fish. And few were prepared for the storm that struck in Sept 2008. Personally, I've been fortunate to remain employed through this mess. I realize that millions are in your shoes and until folks like you are back at work in appropriate positions, we can't even begin to think that we've recovered.

What's been done is admittedly far too little. It was sufficient to prevent us falling over the edge into another depression, but it was very close. And attempts at a more robust recovery have been blocked by a hyperpartisan congress. Their party proposes to do the same thing they did before, which is what precipitated the crisis four years ago.

They simply cannot be trusted to govern until they divorce themselves from the irrational religious right and begin behaving as adults again.
Granted, I am a righty, but "They simply cannot be trusted to govern until they divorce themselves from the irrational religious right and begin behaving as adults again." how did that play a role in the economic downturn?

On the right, we're told that the instability came from pushing banks into creating a stockmarket-like array of tradeable loans which were guaranteed by the federal government, creating a house of cards effect.
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