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Old 05-25-2012, 05:01 AM
 
Location: North America
19,784 posts, read 15,111,393 times
Reputation: 8527

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sco View Post
Ahhh, the good old days. Prayer in the schools and blacks in the balcony.

It's an illustration of how far we've come, and how far we still need to go. I never used the term "good old days."
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:35 AM
 
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,594,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doctrain View Post
Powerful piece by Judge Andrew Napolitano.

"What if, on Memorial Day, we remember times that were more free than today? What if, on Memorial Day, when we think of those who died for our freedom, we end up recognizing that the freedom they died for is dying? What if it becomes fashionable for the government to ignore the Constitution? What if the Constitution dies because the government stops following it? What if, next Memorial Day, freedom is just a memory?"

"What do we do about it?"




What If We Have Only Memories of Freedom? - Judge Andrew Napolitano - Townhall Conservative Columnists
Define Freedom. What does it mean to be free? Is there one definition or are there many definitions that depend on a person's perception of what freedom is?

I believe the word freedom its definition changes with each era of society and one person's definition is opposite of that of another.

Society doesn't have what it takes to be free human beings. For one to be free another must be oppressed. (or at least it seems so in the way people relate to one another) So---what kind of freedom is that?

Define respect.
Define trust.
Define a relationship that involves both trust and respect.

Then show the examples where it works in today's society and then maybe, maybe there may be some freedom in there somewhere.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:37 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 2,044,377 times
Reputation: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctrain View Post
Powerful piece by Judge Andrew Napolitano.

"What if, on Memorial Day, we remember times that were more free than today? What if, on Memorial Day, when we think of those who died for our freedom, we end up recognizing that the freedom they died for is dying? What if it becomes fashionable for the government to ignore the Constitution? What if the Constitution dies because the government stops following it? What if, next Memorial Day, freedom is just a memory?"

"What do we do about it?"




What If We Have Only Memories of Freedom? - Judge Andrew Napolitano - Townhall Conservative Columnists
What freedoms does he refer to, exactly?

"Hey, remember when the federal constitution didn't apply to states, so states were free to do whatever the hell they wanted to us?"

Or,

"Hey, remember when we were free to beat our wives and discriminate against black people?"

Or

"Hey, remember when we were free to tell people who they could and couldn't marry?"
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Old 05-25-2012, 10:05 AM
 
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,594,663 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by carterstamp View Post
It's an illustration of how far we've come, and how far we still need to go. I never used the term "good old days."
I do. Back when people seemed to have respect and show that respect for one another, those are the 'good ole days'.

We are a civilization that has lasted longer than any of those before us. We will evolve, we have been evolving; what we evolve into, depends solely on us.

Freedom on earth is an illusion created by man, for the purpose of enslaving others. There is no such monkey.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:26 PM
 
3,064 posts, read 2,638,810 times
Reputation: 968
Quote:
Originally Posted by actonbell View Post
Define Freedom. What does it mean to be free? Is there one definition or are there many definitions that depend on a person's perception of what freedom is?

I believe the word freedom its definition changes with each era of society and one person's definition is opposite of that of another.

Society doesn't have what it takes to be free human beings. For one to be free another must be oppressed. (or at least it seems so in the way people relate to one another) So---what kind of freedom is that?

Define respect.
Define trust.
Define a relationship that involves both trust and respect.

Then show the examples where it works in today's society and then maybe, maybe there may be some freedom in there somewhere.
Drinking the liberal moral relativity Kool-Aid, are we?
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:38 PM
 
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,594,663 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctrain View Post
Drinking the liberal moral relativity Kool-Aid, are we?
Nope I just know that only God can give a person freedom, where man can only pretend to, that's all.

The first sell to the American people was the Constitution of the U.S. It was sold to them by the founding fathers (politicians of the day) who knew just what they needed to do; say to get it sold.

Think on that one for a moment.

I also know that there have been many civilizations (world wide) before us, and we have lasted longer than they did. However, social evolution will happen and it is up to us, if we digress or not. I found this: Rise and Fall of Ancient Civilizations and I thought it interesting.

With the lack of respect and trust one for another it appears as though we digress. Too many petty differences and mole hills that are being made into mountains, for us to continue much longer. Some one is going to get really p--ssed over something stupid and that will be the end of that.

So, memories of freedom, how can we remember something we never had in the first place?
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:36 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,759,995 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by carterstamp View Post
I don't know if you remember it, but I remember a time where we would read a Bible verse in the classroom every morning.

(I know, I'm older than dirt).
I am old enough to remember when Pennsylvania law required the school day open with 10 verses of the New Testament and the Lord's Prayer, thanks to good ole William Penn.
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Old 05-26-2012, 01:22 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,208,835 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by carterstamp View Post
The Constitution can be changed, by amendments, that's the way it was set up. If it could not be changed, we'd still have slavery and women couldn't vote.

There is no indocrination going on, it's all in the imaginations of the talking heads.

Every time someone wants to teach bible in a public school, it's a violation of the 1st amendment. I do not want my kids being taught religion by a public school teacher. That's my job. You're allowed to practice your religion freely, just don't try to force it down my kids, or grandkids throat through the school system.

Nobody is trying to take your religion away from you, no churches are closing because of federal laws.

Let me clarify a few things, since you obviously have no concept of history, and even reality for that matter.

When it comes to the constitution, keep in mind that the Supreme Court literally has a theory called "the living document theory", which refers to the constitution. Which is a theory which basically states that, the world is changing, and the framers couldn't possibly imagine the world we live in today, and so the constitution may not apply to modern times. Therefore, the Supreme Court should attempt to "interpret the constitution in a modern context".

I know that makes sense in a way, because it is true, the framers couldn't have imagined and designed the constitution for the modern world. But, they did allow amendments, so that we could modify the constitution to adapt to a changing world. The Living Document theory entirely sidesteps the amendment process, and makes the Supreme Court nothing more than an extension of the legislature. Who have effectively free-reign to interpret the constitution however they see fit.

That is dangerous. And too many Supreme Court cases end up split decisions, 5-4, 6-3, etc. Because the Supreme Court tends to vote along ideological lines, since they are nothing more than lifetime appointed legislators with a law degree. The only thing that really limits the Supreme Court in one direction or the other, is the number of judges a Republican or Democrat can appoint in their terms in office, and which party's ideology is more prevalent in Congress over the same period.


Secondly, there is indoctrination going on, it is going on all around you at all times, from all directions. Why exactly do you think people in the Northeast overwhelmingly vote for democrats, and people in the South vote overwhelmingly vote for Republicans. There is most certainly a war for your mind, it is being raged by politicians, by the media, by centers of education, even by your family and friends. Employers try to push their agenda's, from Wal-mart to Exxon to the unions. Each are trying to coax their employees, their executives, their communities, to do what they believe is best.

Schools are the biggest centers of indoctrination that exist. Colleges are overwhelmingly liberal. But there are plenty of conservative and religious schools as well, which tilt the other way.

Public schools tend to teach a curriculum that is incredibly sterilized and politically-correct. And our founding fathers are more and more being demonized as slave-owners, who oppressed everyone but white men. No one is really allowed to be proud to be an American, because it might upset the countless foreigners that live here, let alone the minorities who have more allegiance with their ancestral lands, than America.



As for the Federal government, and the constitution. Keep in mind, that the federal government is nothing like the framers intended. The founders/framers were quite libertarian. And never intended the federal government to be much more than a trivial part of our lives. The founders were angry about British taxes on tea, which compared to the 36% top marginal rate for federal taxes today, it was a absolutely nothing.

The framers not only couldn't imagine the world we live in today, they would be disgusted by it.


When we ask ourselves, why has everything changed so much anyway?

The reality is, there are really two things that changed this country drastically. One is the 14th amendment, the other is the creation of the Federal Reserve. Without these things, this country would still be much as the founders intended it to be.

The sad thing is, the 14th amendment was illegally proposed and ratified, and the Federal Reserve is downright criminal. Which does nothing but inflate and devalue our currency, to hand out to bankers, who loan us our devalued currency back to us.

I dare anyone to actually read the history of the 14th amendment and not realize that the amendment was illegal from day one, let alone forced upon half the country at gunpoint and an illegal suspension of habeas corpus.

Don't take my word for it, this is the document that the Georgia legislature put out more than 50 years ago.

1957 Resolution on Civil Rights Legislation

This was the document where New Jersey rescinded their ratification of the 14th amendment in 1868.

Text of the 1868 Withdrawal of NJ Ratification of Amendment 14

Maybe some more reading for you...

http://www.constitution.org/14ll/14t...ment_dyett.pdf

Online Debate: 14th Amendment | Debate.org



Not that the truth will do much good for most people. They believe to greatly in the righteousness of the federal government, and that the states' are completely incompetent. That they cannot see that there is no real difference between the federal government and a state government. Anymore than there is a difference between the government of the United States and the government of Switzerland. To believe that one is automatically fallible, and the other is necessary to keep the other in line, is just illogical.


The truth is, we have no real concept of what freedom and rights are anymore. Many people believe when the founders say we have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That it means the government should guarantee people housing, food, healthcare, jobs, and to never be offended. Let alone the calls of our founders for neutrality, when we have something like 800 foreign military bases, and are constantly invading, occupying, and bombing other countries and murdering people with our drones. All in the name of "protecting American interests"(whatever that is supposed to mean).

It is really quite an embarrassment. Not just because of our actions. But because most people are just so delusional, that they can't understand what is really going on around them. That they can't understand not only the intentions of the founders, but the purpose of those intentions. We have given up who we are, because opportunistic politicians and their media wings, have been allowed to control this countries policies, and people just go along with it.

Open your eyes, go read, use google, find all the sources you can find, verify all the information you read, and learn the truth. And when you do, tell others.
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Old 05-26-2012, 03:31 AM
 
35,309 posts, read 52,305,052 times
Reputation: 30999
Memories of Freedom? I'm more worried about technology taking freedom away from us than any government.
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Old 05-26-2012, 03:51 AM
 
Location: Inwood
552 posts, read 738,736 times
Reputation: 255
On memorial day we should be remembering fallen soldiers not your unprecedented fears.
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