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Old 05-24-2012, 10:28 PM
 
Location: The Other California
4,254 posts, read 5,304,497 times
Reputation: 1552

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This article is a must read for anyone who wants a clear picture of the social disintegration and collapse that is coming upon us. It's long, but well worth the time.

"Taking the longer historical view, however, the idea that the pro-life and pro-family point of view is 'retrograde' is heavily ironic. We in the Western World have been Christianised for so long that we have unconsciously subsumed these civilisation-building principles without being able any longer to articulate and define them. We have had our civilisation for so long that we have forgotten the barbarism it defeated and tamed. The result of this societal amnesia is that we are increasingly condemning as 'retrograde,' or 'oppressive' the very concepts that built, nurtured and protected our society.

So immersed are we in these foundational ideas, we have little insight to imagine a society not run on Christian moral principles. Beginning history students, even those who regard themselves as 'emancipated' and secularised, are often shocked by the ideas that were considered normal in the ancient world."
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:34 PM
 
Location: SWUS
5,420 posts, read 8,788,853 times
Reputation: 5843
We may have had our "civilization" for a while, but we are far from "civil". As far as traditions and "what's acceptable", well, that changes too.
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:44 PM
 
3,614 posts, read 3,364,919 times
Reputation: 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
This article is a must read for anyone who wants a clear picture of the social disintegration and collapse that is coming upon us. It's long, but well worth the time.

"Taking the longer historical view, however, the idea that the pro-life and pro-family point of view is 'retrograde' is heavily ironic. We in the Western World have been Christianised for so long that we have unconsciously subsumed these civilisation-building principles without being able any longer to articulate and define them. We have had our civilisation for so long that we have forgotten the barbarism it defeated and tamed. The result of this societal amnesia is that we are increasingly condemning as 'retrograde,' or 'oppressive' the very concepts that built, nurtured and protected our society.

So immersed are we in these foundational ideas, we have little insight to imagine a society not run on Christian moral principles. Beginning history students, even those who regard themselves as 'emancipated' and secularised, are often shocked by the ideas that were considered normal in the ancient world."
I have a bull**** detector. Usually anytime an organization has "family" in its name, it's usually an ultraconservative dumb-tank. The opinionist claiming Christian moral principles civilized society, created civilization, or any of the similar, shows she's pretty much out of her gourd.
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,946 posts, read 16,500,694 times
Reputation: 4650
Lets forget gay marriage for a second. In the pagan days, they had things like human sacrifices. Just study the Mayans and the Aztecs. Human life was worth nothing and the idea that all people are created equal by God and that every human being has worth was unheard of. Cannibalism was also accepted in many cultures. Slavery was also universally accepted. These things were considered "normal" and not morally wrong. Christendom has done a great deal at shaping western civilization. As the generations pass and Christendom fades into the history books, many of these things will come back. We are already seeing the beginning of it now. Unless a dictator sweeps in who oppresses religion, its just a matter of time before Europe is Islamified, and America will be about 30 or so years behind.

If you think an atheist-run society will be the peaceful utopia liberals dream of, just take a look at Soviet Russia. Humans, by nature are evil.
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Old 05-24-2012, 11:19 PM
 
3,614 posts, read 3,364,919 times
Reputation: 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
pagan days, they had things like human sacrifices. Just study the Mayans and the Aztecs.
Very religious societies, and very advanced too.

But don't forget about sacrifices the Christians can prescribed to which are littered through the old testament, or the fact that millions eat the flesh of Jesus and drink his blood every Sunday, or that your god killed his human self in a human sacrifice. Your religion is literally born of literal human sacrifice.

Quote:
Human life was worth nothing
Strange statement based purely on speculation. Last time I checked, royalty were worth more than peasants, which implies value alone.

Quote:
and the idea that all people are created equal by God and that every human being has worth was unheard of.
Equality isn't an original Christian moral principle. That one belongs to the ancient Romans and Greeks.

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Cannibalism was also accepted in many cultures.
I again refer you to the Eucharist, which is considered by millions to be the literal eating of Jesus' flesh and blood.

Quote:
Slavery was also universally accepted.
Including by Christians! After all, it's right there in the bible that you're allowed to own people!

Quote:
These things were considered "normal" and not morally wrong.
I don't expect you to understand, but morality is relative to society. It's morally fine to own people three hundred years ago, but feel free to continue painting your broad strokes of revisionism while you masturbate to your delusions of Christian Superiority.

Quote:
Christendom has done a great deal at shaping western civilization.
Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece, yes. Your kind merely adopted these principles and carried them. In fact, Christianity really hasn't done much original work of its own. I'll give you the Sistine Chapel, and that's about it.

Quote:
As the generations pass and Christendom fades into the history books, many of these things will come back. We are already seeing the beginning of it now. Unless a dictator sweeps in who oppresses religion, its just a matter of time before Europe is Islamified, and America will be about 30 or so years behind.

If you think an atheist-run society will be the peaceful utopia liberals dream of, just take a look at Soviet Russia. Humans, by nature are evil.
Hooray, ignorance!

1. Clearly you have a deep-seated fear or hatred of Islam and zero respect for the freedom of religion, a founding freedom and principle of this very country.

2.
The Stalinism was a religion. When Dictators deify themselves, like Kim Jung-Il did, that isn't atheism, that's merely replacing one false idol (Jesus) with another (Jung-Il). Dictators become gods in their own right.

And this bears repeating because you won't understand it either, but secularism is not atheism. They are two entirely distinct and separate concepts which, although often confused with one another, are unrelated.
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Old 05-24-2012, 11:25 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,093 posts, read 12,812,527 times
Reputation: 14259
What silly tripe.

"If you're not an intolerant homophobe / xenophobe like us, civilization will COLLAPSE!"

ha ha... as if.
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:02 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,097 posts, read 24,833,972 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
I have a bull**** detector. Usually anytime an organization has "family" in its name, it's usually an ultraconservative dumb-tank. The opinionist claiming Christian moral principles civilized society, create"d civilization, or any of the similar, shows she's pretty much out of her gourd.
Aren't you assuming that "ultra-liberalism" has some kind of "held ground" when you state such ideas. I would argue that it doesn't. Your adherence to and defense of your political view is admirable, it just doesn't make much sense.
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:05 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,097 posts, read 24,833,972 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
Lets forget gay marriage for a second. In the pagan days, they had things like human sacrifices. Just study the Mayans and the Aztecs. Human life was worth nothing and the idea that all people are created equal by God and that every human being has worth was unheard of. Cannibalism was also accepted in many cultures. Slavery was also universally accepted. These things were considered "normal" and not morally wrong. Christendom has done a great deal at shaping western civilization. As the generations pass and Christendom fades into the history books, many of these things will come back. We are already seeing the beginning of it now. Unless a dictator sweeps in who oppresses religion, its just a matter of time before Europe is Islamified, and America will be about 30 or so years behind.

If you think an atheist-run society will be the peaceful utopia liberals dream of, just take a look at Soviet Russia. Humans, by nature are evil.
You have a good grasp of history - very well said!
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:24 AM
 
5,768 posts, read 11,166,718 times
Reputation: 3853
My suspicion is that society and culture are shaped primarily by prosperity (or its absence), geography, and other "local" factors, and that these in turn determine the direction of our morality.

For instance, under a cultural scheme that was certainly very "Christian," we were sending children to their deaths in coal mines only a century ago. What are we to make of this? Was that a "moral" thing to do? It certainly wasn't seen as morally-inconsistent with the prevailing "Christian" values of the time.

Basically, if things get bad, they get bad. The underlying Christian moral impulses of this country are functionally meaningless when it really counts. A man is not going to lay down his sniper rifle and refrain from murdering you for your boots on account of the teaching of Jesus if it is freezing and he needs those boots to avoid frostbite.
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Old 05-25-2012, 01:15 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
17,226 posts, read 12,383,448 times
Reputation: 14203
Silly me - I thought that marriage was a contract for merging property rights for the benefit of progeny... you know ... legitimate children.

From time immemorial, transferring property to the next generation was what marriage laws supported. And even the religious pressure to marry and endow children with the family's most precious possession, was so that the land would not be abandoned and subject to adverse possession by strangers.

Ah, but under the Glorious Socialist revolution, where the collective owns everything, and we are but cogs in the Great Machine, why do we need such archaic things as property rights and marriage? The State shall tax labor, property ownership, inheritances, and reduce the endowment of the children and their children to come.... for our own good.

Now we can dispense with time honored traditions like allegiance to one's family and clan, and fracture marriages of convenience on a whim. Big Brother will take care of us.

Or will he?
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