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Old 05-28-2012, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Florida
33,509 posts, read 18,076,105 times
Reputation: 15498

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one first must be Born of the Spirit of God to understand the word of God. If one believes in God and receives the Holy Spirit though Jesus they have spiritual eyes to see what the word of God means.. Words are spirit and without the spirit of the Living God one cannot understand it. It is foolishness to them. One must believe in God in order to discern what the words are saying and this is faith being exercised.

 
Old 05-28-2012, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,207,511 times
Reputation: 16939
Quote:
Originally Posted by tillman7 View Post
You actually believe that black people first came over here during slavery?
You actually believe that Chris Columbus discovered America?
You actually believe that Jesus was born on Dec. 25th?
You actually believe that terrorists with box cutters brought down two buildings in NYC and destroyed part of the Pentagon?
You actually believe bin Laden, a man with reported dire health problems, was murdered last May by American forces?
You actually believe Hitler and America didn't have a working relationship?

Those are just some of the many fairy tales purported by numerous trusted sources.
If this was a *history* discussion I'd qualify the first three. But if I was citing them I would not use such absolutes. Yes, Columbus discovered America. It was also discovered multiple other times but the net wasn't so well wired then.

If Jesus was even born, it would be in the spring for them to go to Bethleham.

The guys with boxcutters were the ones they hired to do the dirty. The planners who figured out how to do it were the ones that made it happen. So they did, and didn't.

yes and no on the last two.

First and third are true and false at the same time, as facts can be. If I was to use that I'd have to clarify that. Second one I wouldn't be using.

Most people don't want to go beyond the simplistic easy to grasp so they fall easy prey to religions who promise to make it all good for them. Mine, you choose to save yourself from yourself. And we don't tell others they should follow our path unless they feel like its right turn down the road.
 
Old 05-28-2012, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Rational World Park
4,991 posts, read 4,497,625 times
Reputation: 2375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
one first must be Born of the Spirit of God to understand the word of God. If one believes in God and receives the Holy Spirit though Jesus they have spiritual eyes to see what the word of God means.. Words are spirit and without the spirit of the Living God one cannot understand it. It is foolishness to them. One must believe in God in order to discern what the words are saying and this is faith being exercised.
People are born non-believers. How can one believe in a god if they can't discern what the holy book that's making the claim that a god exist says?
 
Old 05-29-2012, 06:34 AM
 
8,131 posts, read 4,309,780 times
Reputation: 4683
You know, as many “holier than thou” religious fanatics as there are, there seem to be just as many “your entire religious logic is flawed and irrelevant to my genius” fanatics trolling about as well.
 
Old 05-29-2012, 06:46 AM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,113,650 times
Reputation: 5941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
God's ways are higher than man's ways... God knows all, from beginning to end. One is not educated in the spirit if the don't know the word of God. We are more spirit than flesh. It is the Holy Spirit that is the teacher. To not have he Holy Spirit given to them through Jesus Christ the word of God cannot be understood.
What was THAT mess?

Sounds like a weak excuse for "I don't know"...

I repeat,
Because they use the bible as a replacement for thinking for themselves and using logic....all that thinky stuff wears them out
 
Old 05-29-2012, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,623 posts, read 19,105,746 times
Reputation: 21738
Quote:
Originally Posted by helenejen View Post
Yep. Faith precludes reason. As a Catholic I believe that the bread and wine at Mass are transformed into the actual body and blood of Christ. Do I recognize how insane this makes me sound to people who aren't Catholics? Absolutely. And I'm ok with that.
Well, maybe you can get him to transform it into a couple of $TRILLION to pay down your National Debt and save Social Security and Medicare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by helenejen View Post
I get that it's totally irrational, but that's faith.
That is not faith.

When I go to the al-Amir, I have faith that I will be served up a delicious chicken shawarma and gyro without suffering any ill health effects, because the guys who own it run a clean kitchen and are very picky about the produce and meats they select and serve for public consumption.

That is faith.

Their faith did not help catholics who were [deservedly] slaughtered during the English civil wars.

Didn't keep a pope from dying in prison either.

Not impressed with Jesus...

Mircea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Who?Me?! View Post
But don't you ever ask yourself why you have to believe that?

What is the purpose?

Who told you it was the body and blood of Christ?

Don't you question what their authority/knowledge/reason was??

If you didn't believe it what would happen to you?
Excellent.

Commending...

Mircea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunucu Beach View Post
Actually, there is a lot in the Bible that is sound advice and common sense. It isn't all about worshiping a Higher Being.
You're right.

It's all about obeying and being a good slave.

Pointing out the obvious...

Mircea


Quote:
Originally Posted by ParallelJJCat View Post
Have you read the religious texts of all other religions?
Why would they want to do that? They cannot even explain the criteria by which they accept or reject ancient texts, much less explain why the accept some Old and New Testament Books while rejecting others.

Mythologically...

Mircea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
God's ways are higher than man's ways...
Uh, wut?

What kind of god arranges for a contest between two brothers over who is the best, knowing full well who the winner will be in advance, and knowing that one would murder the other due to the choice the god made?

What kind of god creates the heavens and the Earth, and man, then runs away and hides for 4.5 Billion years, then returns and says, "I don't like how things are going and the fact that man, animals and plants have sinned and are wicked" and then destroys the whole Earth with a "flood?"

What kind of "enlightened" being condones slavery, and then sets up a chapters of boring laws about it?

You say god's ways are higher?

I say rape is wrong. Always. I say rape is a peremptory norm under jus cogens, and that there is no possible set of circumstances that would ever justify rape.

What does Jesus and Yahweh say?

Jesus and Yahweh say it's perfectly okay to brutally rape and sodomize a woman, so long as you marry her.

Your god is morally inferior to me.

And you want to worship a god like that? And then you want to ram the ideas of your morally inferior god down our throats? DSM-IV lists psychiatric conditions for that you know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
God knows all, from beginning to end.
Oh, yeah?

Judges 1:19 The Lord was with the men of Judah. They conquered the hill country, but they could not conquer the people living in the coastal plain, because they had chariots with iron-rimmed wheels.

Apparently your god was too stupid to know in advance that the people on the coastal plain had chariots with iron-rimmed wheels.

And your god was too weak and pathetic to conquer them. What a loser.

James 1:17 All generous giving and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights,
with whom there is no variation or the slightest hint of change.

Jonah 3:10 When God saw their actions – they turned from their evil way of living! – God relented concerning the judgment he had threatened them with and he did not destroy them.

So which is it? Your god must work at Wafflehouse because he waffles all the time. I know crack-heads on the street who are better liars than your god.

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a human being, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not make it happen.

Oooops. Adding insult to injury.

Jeremiah 15:6 I, the Lord, say: ‘You people have deserted me!


Duh! You're too stupid to know that?

Jeremiah 15:6 You keep turning your back on me.


Again, you'd have to be a mindless moron not to see that coming.


Jeremiah 15:6 So I have unleashed my power against you and have begun to destroy you. I have grown tired of feeling sorry for you!

Wow. And that is just more biblical contradictions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
One is not educated in the spirit if the don't know the word of God.
So, what I'm hearing and smelling is that if I was reading the aforementioned passages wearing my Special God Glasses I would interpret it differently?

Whatever.

Here, let me help you out:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova
One is not educated in the spirit National Socialism if they don't know the word of Hitler. We are more spirit than flesh. It is the Holy Spirit that is the teacher. To not have the Nazi Spirit given to them through Hitler the word of Hitler cannot be understood.
See how silly that sounds?





Laughing at god....

Mircea
 
Old 05-29-2012, 01:44 PM
 
197 posts, read 298,952 times
Reputation: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by tillman7 View Post
You actually believe that black people first came over here during slavery?
You actually believe that Chris Columbus discovered America?
You actually believe that Jesus was born on Dec. 25th?
You actually believe that terrorists with box cutters brought down two buildings in NYC and destroyed part of the Pentagon?
You actually believe bin Laden, a man with reported dire health problems, was murdered last May by American forces?
You actually believe Hitler and America didn't have a working relationship?

Those are just some of the many fairy tales purported by numerous trusted sources.



And this would make the Bible into ' The truth ' , exactly how?
 
Old 05-29-2012, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Florida
33,509 posts, read 18,076,105 times
Reputation: 15498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Well, maybe you can get him to transform it into a couple of $TRILLION to pay down your National Debt and save Social Security and Medicare.



That is not faith.

When I go to the al-Amir, I have faith that I will be served up a delicious chicken shawarma and gyro without suffering any ill health effects, because the guys who own it run a clean kitchen and are very picky about the produce and meats they select and serve for public consumption.

That is faith.

Their faith did not help catholics who were [deservedly] slaughtered during the English civil wars.

Didn't keep a pope from dying in prison either.

Not impressed with Jesus...

Mircea



Excellent.

Commending...

Mircea



You're right.

It's all about obeying and being a good slave.

Pointing out the obvious...

Mircea




Why would they want to do that? They cannot even explain the criteria by which they accept or reject ancient texts, much less explain why the accept some Old and New Testament Books while rejecting others.

Mythologically...

Mircea



Uh, wut?

What kind of god arranges for a contest between two brothers over who is the best, knowing full well who the winner will be in advance, and knowing that one would murder the other due to the choice the god made?

What kind of god creates the heavens and the Earth, and man, then runs away and hides for 4.5 Billion years, then returns and says, "I don't like how things are going and the fact that man, animals and plants have sinned and are wicked" and then destroys the whole Earth with a "flood?"

What kind of "enlightened" being condones slavery, and then sets up a chapters of boring laws about it?

You say god's ways are higher?

I say rape is wrong. Always. I say rape is a peremptory norm under jus cogens, and that there is no possible set of circumstances that would ever justify rape.

What does Jesus and Yahweh say?

Jesus and Yahweh say it's perfectly okay to brutally rape and sodomize a woman, so long as you marry her.

Your god is morally inferior to me.

And you want to worship a god like that? And then you want to ram the ideas of your morally inferior god down our throats? DSM-IV lists psychiatric conditions for that you know.



Oh, yeah?

Judges 1:19 The Lord was with the men of Judah. They conquered the hill country, but they could not conquer the people living in the coastal plain, because they had chariots with iron-rimmed wheels.

Apparently your god was too stupid to know in advance that the people on the coastal plain had chariots with iron-rimmed wheels.

And your god was too weak and pathetic to conquer them. What a loser.

James 1:17 All generous giving and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights,
with whom there is no variation or the slightest hint of change.

Jonah 3:10 When God saw their actions – they turned from their evil way of living! – God relented concerning the judgment he had threatened them with and he did not destroy them.

So which is it? Your god must work at Wafflehouse because he waffles all the time. I know crack-heads on the street who are better liars than your god.

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a human being, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not make it happen.

Oooops. Adding insult to injury.

Jeremiah 15:6 I, the Lord, say: ‘You people have deserted me!


Duh! You're too stupid to know that?

Jeremiah 15:6 You keep turning your back on me.


Again, you'd have to be a mindless moron not to see that coming.


Jeremiah 15:6 So I have unleashed my power against you and have begun to destroy you. I have grown tired of feeling sorry for you!

Wow. And that is just more biblical contradictions.



So, what I'm hearing and smelling is that if I was reading the aforementioned passages wearing my Special God Glasses I would interpret it differently?

Whatever.

Here, let me help you out:



See how silly that sounds?





Laughing at god....

Mircea
God is a God of mercy and love but also a God of wisdom. He created all of us and he gave everyone a free will. It was the choice of free will that Cain slew Abel out of jealousy. It was in Cains heart . His choice. God can see the heart and knows all. It grieves God that man has fallen and has made a way to know God as once Adam walked with God sinless.

God destroyed the earth because it had become so wicked and evil.


Faith in God makes us believers in him. Without faith one cannot know God . God created everything and we are here because of being created by him. You rail at God and laugh at him. God is not mocked. God's wisdom and mercy can open your mind up to his love and give you spiritual eyes to see him as he is.
 
Old 05-29-2012, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Area 51.5
13,887 posts, read 13,642,217 times
Reputation: 9171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty011 View Post
I suppose it's because they believe in the Bible. Can you prove what they are quoting is not correct? I don't think so.
Great answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by helenejen View Post
Basic failure to understand how audience works. They need a rhetoric 101 class.
I don't suppose it ever occurred to you that there may be both thoughts in the same audience. Not everyone thinks like you, doncha know!
 
Old 05-29-2012, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Va. Beach
6,392 posts, read 5,158,752 times
Reputation: 2283
Quote:
Originally Posted by tillman7 View Post
Why do people quote Bible verses like it's fact and think I'll simply agree with them?
Why do people think the bible was written in english and what they are reading in english is what it actually says?
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