The question for the masses (Representatives, unemployment rate, generations, millionaires)
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They probably have fought harder and have finally reached that level of mediocrity where the wealthy are reduced to the level of our middle class.
Huh? I don't know about that. I've spent a fair amount of time in Europe. People seem to live pretty well there. Not so many McMansions and Escalades, but the wealthy there are pretty darn wealthy.
Besides, people get rich here and what do they do? Travel to Europe.
Do people too poor to support themselves/their families without some type of public assistance deserve to die from curable diseases, go homeless, or go hungry? Curious as to your possibly warm-hearted or cold-hearted opinions.
Good question, but skirts many finer points. No, of course no on DESERVES to experience these unhappy fates. The problem is that, by the nature of the argument, it goes from "it's OUR responsibility, as a civilized society, to care for the poor, etc."----to eventually "it's our FAULT that the poor are in the condition that they are." Huge difference in point-of-view.
I don't want to live in a society where people are treated like expendable trash without rights or dignity. On the other hand, at least some of their condition is their own doing. Let's keep this in mind as we continue to "help".
Some years back, a grad student at (I think) Vanderbilt did his thesis on exactly this problem. He let himself "go scruffy" and spent nearly a year living among the homeless and the "winos" and hoboes. He wrote his thesis on the interviews he got.
Once he'd established credibility with these guys (he was "The Professor", and posed as a "down-and-out" wino), he said that about 98% of them admitted at least SOME responsibility for their sorry condition. Every one had made a series of bad decisions, selfish or lazy "moves", in which they'd failed to "steer clear" of that life, and "blown" opportunities. Most, by now, were probably beyond help. Yet almost all admitted they'd "put themselves there", at least to some extent. Not exactly the textbook "liberal" way of looking at the problem. Something to think about, though....
The resentment is from being forced to help these people. The United States is monetarily the most charitable nation in the World. ...
This post is a great example of DISCONNECT among the populace.
What is your notion of CITIZENSHIP? Why is it that you don't feel connected to these people, your FELLOW AMERICANS? You say there is a sense of RESENTMENT. That is incredible. HOW LOW are you willing to let people fall?
What is your notion of the SIZE OF THE NEED versus the SIZE OF THE NONPROFIT RESOURCES available in fact to address the need? You are DISCONNECTED from REALITY.
Last edited by ParkTwain; 09-22-2007 at 01:39 PM..
I'm sorry but I'm just seeing too many negative effects of section 8 people moving into my neighborhood. We've had an increase in section 8 in the past 2 years, and have watched the schools change dramatically. The two schools near me went from Blue Ribbon to just 'acceptable,' and while this was happening we saw the number of kids listed as receiving govt aid jump from 12% to 25%. This has affected performance of other students in the school and it affects property values. My neighbors and I have all worked a long time to be able to have a nice house in a nice quiet neighborhood, and it is wrong for someone to just come into our neighborhood, get the same house for 'free,' not take care of it, not pay attention to their kids's education, and leave this negative impact on the rest of us.
Now in the past 6 months, I have noticed that some of the 'landlord owners' are starting to sell their houses rather than rent again, so hopefully more of this section 8 will be leaving us soon. And central to this problem, as the poster NewToCA commented, is that section 8 people rarely assimiliate into the neighborhoods. (And I also saw this experience in Philly.) They just make the neighborhoods they come into worse (because it's easier to take someone out of their neighborhood than to change their values).
I think what a person deserves comes from ther choices made in the past we all in one capacity or another have chosen what we deserve today ouer choices today are what we deserve tomaro. If I chouse not to eat tonight I will be damn hungry tomaro, we dont allways know what choices will give us for a reality in the future but we will find out. And there are choices that are genraly conciterd good or bad and there are concicinces for bolth, iI diddent pay atention in school so my gramor and spelling arnt that good and yesterday I dident do any thing to remedy it so still today I feel I realy dont deserve to have that skill. You get out of life what you put into it to one degree or another.
Why is there less poverty in previously-impoverished, classist Europe? Maybe they fought harder in that war... but nobody's directly answered the question.
Less homeownership/jobs/ingenuity/freedom/oppertunites too.
Look, we have Food Stamps(Food), Section 8(Shelter), Medicaid(health), Goodwill(Clothing), and a variety of grants and porgrams. Is it all perfect? No. Should we continue to fight poverty? Yes. But when you look at the rest of the world, extremely few (like maybe 1 million people) if any people come even close to being "impoverished".
Also, in direct answer to your question, here's some things to chew on:
-Europe has less immigrants forcing down labor prices
-Europe has less popualtion growth (ie: mouths to feed)
-Europe does not have the ghetto mentality that infects too many poor here of all colors
-Europe does not have the anti-educational attitudes of American inner-cities
-Europe controls your life more so it's harder to make "Bad choices"
-Europe does not have the same availablity of drugs
-Europe does not have a historically high proportion of poor to begin with, the "Euro-trash" came here. (yours truly included)
This post is a great example of DISCONNECT among the populace.
What is your notion of CITIZENSHIP? Why is it that you don't feel connected to these people, your FELLOW AMERICANS? You say there is a sense of RESENTMENT. That is incredible. HOW LOW are you willing to let people fall?
What is your notion of the SIZE OF THE NEED versus the SIZE OF THE NONPROFIT RESOURCES available in fact to address the need? You are DISCONNECTED from REALITY.
If we did what you were saying, then alot of stuff would be cut, to be honest.
The vast majority of the "poor" do not go hungry, are not homeless, and are not without medical care.
I think what a person deserves comes from ther choices made in the past we all in one capacity or another have chosen what we deserve today ouer choices today are what we deserve tomaro. If I chouse not to eat tonight I will be damn hungry tomaro, we dont allways know what choices will give us for a reality in the future but we will find out. And there are choices that are genraly conciterd good or bad and there are concicinces for bolth, iI diddent pay atention in school so my gramor and spelling arnt that good and yesterday I dident do any thing to remedy it so still today I feel I realy dont deserve to have that skill. You get out of life what you put into it to one degree or another.
Life is too complex to deduct that we get out of life what we put into it. Lax parenting, illness, divorce and a myriad of others factors somewhat dictate how ones' life will play out. The fact is that not everyone has the same opportunities. Not everyone is equally resourceful. Not everyone is of sound body and mind. We have different tolerances to stress. We have various degrees of work ethics. Some of us have great parental examples and we emulate them. Others of us have great parental examples and we screw up in life. Some people beat the odds, move out of the ghetto and get educated and thrive. Others grew up with a silver spoon in their mouth, become drug addicts and screw up. I don't feel qualified to judge who society should help and who we shouldn't help. I still subscribe to the belief that no one in this country should be denied food, shelter and healthcare.
I find the attitude towards the poor in the US to be nothing short of disgusting and even disturbing. What happened to compassion and dignity? People seem to love to pass judgment on the poor, blaming them for their problems and accusing them of simply making "bad choices", as if it's as black and white as that.
Not everyone can be rich, not everyone is capable of even taking care of themselves.
Really? I see Mexican farmers working in 100 degree heat or working demolition jobs. I see Cuban refugees opening buisnesses and starting companies. I see African doctorates and Jamaican homeowners. I see Vietnamese hedge fund managers and Indian IT specialists.
They all come from some of the most destitute countries on earth, and yet they make it here? Hmmmm, why is that?
What is this "poor" you're talking about? I doubt it's the people I pass by in NYCHA, considering they all own cars and mobiles.
Maybe some of the indignation comes from the crime, excuses, and general squalor American born poor create. Which has gone up since the "Great Society".
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