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Old 09-22-2007, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Hernando County, FL
8,488 posts, read 20,576,578 times
Reputation: 5397

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkTwain View Post
Sheesh, put that spending into some greater economic CONTEXT. Show the plot of growth of U.S. GDP over that time, please. Show the percentage of that spending relative to annual GDP, AND relative to other parts of government spending. Etc. Etc. Maybe the growth of wealth in the U.S. has vastly outperformed the spending on entitlements and welfare.

PLUS, if the welfare spending has been increasing, this is the RESULT of a series of POLITICAL DECISIONS made by our ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES who are reacting to the WILL OF THE PEOPLE.

PLUS, look at the "Medical" portion of that chart. Is there some underlying structural economic reason that has caused medical spending to increase so quickly versus the underlying inflation rate? Isn't there something extenuating going on there? Is there something actually harmful to the economy going on there? Do you have any idea what kinds of things those might be? Etc. Etc. Etc.
Since you just want to keep questioning instead of providing facts of your own.

The GDP had increased approximately 306% between 1970 and 2000.
In that same time frame welfare spending has increased approximately 425%.
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Old 09-22-2007, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,445,750 times
Reputation: 1052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livinginabox View Post
That's a pretty graph, but of course welfare spending would have increased since 1929....inflation for starters.

I believe that the reason why medical, social services and education spending have increased so dramatically is that the costs of healthcare and education/tuition have spiraled out of control over the past couple of decades (it's not that we're giving more 'hand outs').

The chart's note says that its numbers are in year 2000 dollars, so it's already adjusted for inflation over that time. Whether the numbers that it shows are VALID, is another story.

Last edited by ParkTwain; 09-22-2007 at 03:08 PM..
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Old 09-22-2007, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,445,750 times
Reputation: 1052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Peterson View Post
Since you just want to keep questioning instead of providing facts of your own.

The GDP had increased approximately 306% between 1970 and 2000.
In that same time frame welfare spending has increased approximately 425%.

That chart shows that a good deal of the increase is due to HEALTH CARE spending. So anyone who cares about government spending on social services should also care about FIXING THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. There has been a huge transfer of wealth to health care providers in the last 40 years. And now the citizenry is less well provided for than ever. Nice work! This is genuinely a failure of the entire American political system, with both major parties taking their shares of the blame. The question is, how did it happen, the answer to which might help bring about finding a way to make things better.

Now, show us the chart for the Department of Defense. That increase in spending can be shown to be almost entirely UNNECESSARY since the end of the Cold War. The Right Wing likes to set up social services spending against the Dept of Defense, as if the latter is of the same nature and importance. It is a canard.

Last edited by ParkTwain; 09-22-2007 at 03:21 PM..
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Old 09-22-2007, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,445,750 times
Reputation: 1052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Peterson View Post
Since you just want to keep questioning instead of providing facts of your own.

I'm not spouting the boat bilge, you guys are. So back it up. The whole board will see that your opinions are based on Rush Limbaugh's toejam, not reality.

Go back in this thread and note where I stepped in to react to the opinions, er bilge, of a previous poster.
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Old 09-22-2007, 04:17 PM
jco
 
Location: Austin
2,121 posts, read 6,440,608 times
Reputation: 1444
Please calm down.
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Old 09-22-2007, 04:29 PM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,794 posts, read 3,671,924 times
Reputation: 484
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishmonger View Post
Do people too poor to support themselves/their families without some type of public assistance deserve to die from curable diseases, go homeless, or go hungry? Curious as to your possibly warm-hearted or cold-hearted opinions.
Only if you have the same attitude that was prevalent during the industrial revolution; and, possibly as far back as the middle ages. In my opinion, it is the inverse of the Divine Right attitude of the (circa) 16th century.

Economics weren't very well understood in the Iron Age. Today, we can deliver mana from the public sector, and from the sky (if air dropped).

To directly answer your question. No; not in any self-respecting first world economy. Especially one that has the specifically enumerated power to promote and provide for the general Welfare of its populace.
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Old 09-22-2007, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Hernando County, FL
8,488 posts, read 20,576,578 times
Reputation: 5397
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkTwain View Post
I'm not spouting the boat bilge, you guys are. So back it up. The whole board will see that your opinions are based on Rush Limbaugh's toejam, not reality.

Go back in this thread and note where I stepped in to react to the opinions, er bilge, of a previous poster.
You offer nothing.

All I have seen you do is tell posters that their opinions are not valid while posting nothing of consequence yourself.

When you are given facts that you asked for, you then ask for more.

I guess you won because I will not respond further since you have nothing to offer.
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Old 09-22-2007, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,445,750 times
Reputation: 1052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Peterson View Post
You offer nothing.

All I have seen you do is tell posters that their opinions are not valid while posting nothing of consequence yourself.

When you are given facts that you asked for, you then ask for more.

I guess you won because I will not respond further since you have nothing to offer.

It's called a critique. If you post assertions devoid of facts, numbers devoid of context, generalizations devoid of distinctions, you might receive a critique from others. A critique can be part of a discussion, not necessarily the end of a discussion.
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Old 09-22-2007, 06:23 PM
 
6,565 posts, read 14,263,916 times
Reputation: 3229
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkTwain View Post
This post is a great example of DISCONNECT among the populace.

What is your notion of CITIZENSHIP? Why is it that you don't feel connected to these people, your FELLOW AMERICANS? You say there is a sense of RESENTMENT. That is incredible. HOW LOW are you willing to let people fall?
I'm willing to let MANY Americans fail. I don't feel connected to them because I am not. Are you over there humming 'America the Beautiful' while you claim that all Americans are your brothers from your cozy home??? How many homeless brother Americans you got shacking up with ya there??? yeah, thought not.

The old addage that you can't help someone who won't help themselves rings more true than you are apparently willing to admit. And ONCE AGAIN you are misrepresenting my statement which was exactly OPPOSITE of how you're trying to portray me. I AM willing to help. I resent being TOLD I'm GOING to help. Having MY hard earned money TAKEN and RE-DISTRIBUTED to many who are undeserving. I deserve the choice to be charitable to whom and what I deem appropriate. THAT is AMERICA. THAT is CAPITALISM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkTwain
What is your notion of the SIZE OF THE NEED versus the SIZE OF THE NONPROFIT RESOURCES available in fact to address the need? You are DISCONNECTED from REALITY.
What is YOUR notion of the size non-profit resources COULD be and charitable organizations COULD be if Americans were left to their own choice to help the organizations they wished to help???

Want an example??? Take FEMA for god's sake!!! You don't think Americans themselves could do better, rather than have their money funnelled into some big government cesspool of an organization??? Beaurocracy eats up more of this money than actually is going to help people, so don't preach to me about not wishing to be helpful. It isn't that.

I'm not disconnected from anything. It's simple, pure, and utter bullcrap that my money is forceably redistributed. That's reality.
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Old 09-22-2007, 06:24 PM
 
6,565 posts, read 14,263,916 times
Reputation: 3229
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkTwain View Post
"Less homeownership/jobs/ingenuity/freedom/oppertunites too."


Can you attach some FACTS to your opinions? Enough with the jingoism.
And enough with the Socialism.
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