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Old 06-01-2012, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Metro-Detroit area
4,050 posts, read 3,953,911 times
Reputation: 2107

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
In other words, you can't defend your position?

Question: In your studies of hermeneutics, upon who or what do you rely to interpret Scripture?

For your edification, I give you this, if you're interested. It states the case better than I can:



Should Christians Submit to Government Authority?
No, in other words I refuse to debate Christology with someone who dosen't understand it, is ignorant of it or tries to apply societal boundaries upon it.
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:21 PM
 
26,143 posts, read 19,767,810 times
Reputation: 17241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier
You ignore the fact that people who choose to be gay are sinners.
THEY DO NOT CHOOSE TO BE GAY ANYMORE THAN YOU CAN ONE DAY BE ATTRACTED TO THE SAME SEX!!!!!!

It happens @ birth and depending on what occurs in thier life,they go one way or another....


Only people who are born BISEXUAL can choose one or the other..... (Otherwise you cant.... YOU TRY AND KISS THE SAME SEX (ON THE LIPS) AND SEE IF YOU CAN EASILY LOVE DOING IT)


If your honest,YOU WONT BE ABLE TO!
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Old 06-01-2012, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,567 posts, read 12,792,358 times
Reputation: 9399
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
I haven't seen you saying the same thing about all those other preachers who are preaching that gays should be rounded up and imprisoned, or killed. Why is that?
I must have over looked that important point. Actually some things are so outrageous and so horrific that I skirt around the issue because to be honest I am a bit of a coward and have trouble facing such evil.. Both of my parents suffered during the last great war- my mothers family was Ukrainian and most of them were victims of genocide- I don't believe in it - and it's to disturbing an thought to even discuss...but I will.

The preachers that advocate such actions are monsters- Some sections of Christianity are twisted to the point of being unadulterated evil...The mercy of God is such a powerful grace- that God or Jesus - would never condone the killing of anyone- even those that some consider evil and in humanities eyes should die- These things are inventions of vicious human beings and have nothing to do with God or real Christianity...Even the devil is shown mercy by God..


These preachers once they had their ways with gays would not stop there- they would attack who ever in their mind was not pulling their party line...Remember those that persecute are not truly selective - they will harm everyone if given the power.
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Old 06-01-2012, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,260 posts, read 14,165,148 times
Reputation: 9895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
I must have over looked that important point. Actually some things are so outrageous and so horrific that I skirt around the issue because to be honest I am a bit of a coward and have trouble facing such evil.. Both of my parents suffered during the last great war- my mothers family was Ukrainian and most of them were victims of genocide- I don't believe in it - and it's to disturbing an thought to even discuss...but I will.

The preachers that advocate such actions are monsters- Some sections of Christianity are twisted to the point of being unadulterated evil...The mercy of God is such a powerful grace- that God or Jesus - would never condone the killing of anyone- even those that some consider evil and in humanities eyes should die- These things are inventions of vicious human beings and have nothing to do with God or real Christianity...Even the devil is shown mercy by God..


These preachers once they had their ways with gays would not stop there- they would attack who ever in their mind was not pulling their party line...Remember those that persecute are not truly selective - they will harm everyone if given the power.
Very well said.
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Old 06-01-2012, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,567 posts, read 12,792,358 times
Reputation: 9399
Getting back to the preacher who lost his flock because he was supportive of gay marriage- Gay marriage is a political and legislative issue- it is a thing that state sponsored and has nothing to do with the church...church and state should be kept separate. The preacher blended the two- Personally I believe that same sex union or gay marriage is a civil issue and that civil unions should suffice. It is NOT a religious question nor should the idea be forced on religious people who are against it. It is their right to disapprove as much as it is the right of gays and lesbians to approve.
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Old 06-01-2012, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,260 posts, read 14,165,148 times
Reputation: 9895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
Getting back to the preacher who lost his flock because he was supportive of gay marriage- Gay marriage is a political and legislative issue- it is a thing that state sponsored and has nothing to do with the church...church and state should be kept separate. The preacher blended the two- Personally I believe that same sex union or gay marriage is a civil issue and that civil unions should suffice. It is NOT a religious question nor should the idea be forced on religious people who are against it. It is their right to disapprove as much as it is the right of gays and lesbians to approve.
But if his church also had marriage ceremonies for same sex couples, then it is also a church issue.
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Old 06-01-2012, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,567 posts, read 12,792,358 times
Reputation: 9399
Oh and well I am at it- Jesus Christ only expected people to behave in such a manner that did not bring harm to others- If the actions of hetrosexuals was harmful- he did not condone it...If the actions of homosexuals was harmful - he did not condone it. Sexuality misused harms people. As does sexual betrayal and abuse...I believe all that Christ expected is that we as human beings love each other...It's weird that God does not judge who is better and who is not- These types of judgements are man made and by design used to dominate and abuse.


Like I said- starvation and mass murder are important issues- how people use their genitals is a non-starter in the large scheme of things...It's not that important...Life and security along with happiness for all is important...all these issues will even out and settle in time- sex should be a minor part of human existence and not a major part- If we are truly eternal creatures then reproduction is also minor .....To go on and on about sexuality renders us to the level of bickering insects..we are more than bugs.
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Old 06-01-2012, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,567 posts, read 12,792,358 times
Reputation: 9399
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
But if his church also had marriage ceremonies for same sex couples, then it is also a church issue.
Churches over time have become private institutions...and like private clubs---they are entitled to practice exclusion from what is an exclusive club...If some of these clubs are less exclusive then that is their business- Don't expect the Arch Bishop of Canterberry to preform same sex marriage rituals in the near future...some things are traditional and will never change...That is just the way it is.


Oddly- the ancient Christian church had female priests..till the men ousted them....maybe in time woman can regain this lost post...and then lets see how female priests will view same sex unions? I would assume that most churches that are run by males - personally don't want to marry another man....perhaps the sisterhood that exists among woman might be different.
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Old 06-01-2012, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,095 posts, read 25,956,059 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude111 View Post
THEY DO NOT CHOOSE TO BE GAY ANYMORE THAN YOU CAN ONE DAY BE ATTRACTED TO THE SAME SEX!!!!!!
It happens @ birth and depending on what occurs in thier life,they go one way or another....
Sorry, but there is no "gay gene" - so any claim you make that sexual "orientation" is a natural trait is pure unsupported hypothesis.
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Old 06-01-2012, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,260 posts, read 14,165,148 times
Reputation: 9895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
Oh and well I am at it- Jesus Christ only expected people to behave in such a manner that did not bring harm to others- If the actions of hetrosexuals was harmful- he did not condone it...If the actions of homosexuals was harmful - he did not condone it. Sexuality misused harms people. As does sexual betrayal and abuse...I believe all that Christ expected is that we as human beings love each other...It's weird that God does not judge who is better and who is not- These types of judgements are man made and by design used to dominate and abuse.


Like I said- starvation and mass murder are important issues- how people use their genitals is a non-starter in the large scheme of things...It's not that important...Life and security along with happiness for all is important...all these issues will even out and settle in time- sex should be a minor part of human existence and not a major part- If we are truly eternal creatures then reproduction is also minor .....To go on and on about sexuality renders us to the level of bickering insects..we are more than bugs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
Churches over time have become private institutions...and like private clubs---they are entitled to practice exclusion from what is an exclusive club...If some of these clubs are less exclusive then that is their business- Don't expect the Arch Bishop of Canterberry to preform same sex marriage rituals in the near future...some things are traditional and will never change...That is just the way it is.


Oddly- the ancient Christian church had female priests..till the men ousted them....maybe in time woman can regain this lost post...and then lets see how female priests will view same sex unions? I would assume that most churches that are run by males - personally don't want to marry another man....perhaps the sisterhood that exists among woman might be different.
I don't think that any church should be required to have ceremonies for anyone that they don't agree with. But this church has no problem with same sex marriage. Why do posters on here seem to think that they can tell THIS church what is right for them?
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