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Old 05-31-2012, 11:32 AM
 
2,385 posts, read 1,586,897 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post
Based on their current stance they won't be paid back at all.

The reality is that the Germans have dug in their heels in the meantime Europe is on the brink of a fiscal meltdown. They have a choice either put together a comprehensive bailout plan for the entire EU or the Europe will go into the type of depression that made 2007 to 2009 seem like the roaring 20s.
Germany will do what is best for Germany. Right now it is austerity. The rest of Europe has to take the medicine, now. There is no alternative.
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,054 posts, read 18,275,532 times
Reputation: 3826
Germany will not throw good money after bad. They will live with the decision to not bail out these other countries any longer.
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:37 AM
 
10,854 posts, read 9,297,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Wow, you could swap the words California for Greece. Seriously.
Not quite the GDP of California is actually much stronger than and they have more industries in terms of technology, entertainment, agriculture, and natural resources.

The biggest problem with Greece is simply put they have no industrial, technological, or natural resources necessary to provide the tax revenue they need to run the country. Olive oil and tourism just aren't enough to provide the economic growth they need.

The reality is that Greece should have NEVER been allowed into the EU to begin with. Now it's up to the folks in the EU to either pass the hat and put together not only a fiscal but long term economic program to make Greece economically sustainable or watch Italy, Spain, Portugal and possibly Ireland get caught up in sovereign debt contagion that will take YEARS to sort out and will be a drag on global economic growth.
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:38 AM
 
2,385 posts, read 1,586,897 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
Germany will not throw good money after bad. They will live with the decision to not bail out these other countries any longer.
Exactly.
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:45 AM
 
2,385 posts, read 1,586,897 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
I don't think I must say that at all. Trade surplus, I'll give you that - but in just about every political particular, they're as far apart as cam be thought. And is the Euro really undervalued in your opinion?
You are right, politically they are not very comparable. However the South of Europe would probably disagree with you on that. They consider them an oppressor who is imposing austerity on them. The Media in Greece is already portraying Merkel in SS Uniforms.

The Euro is not undervalued per se. But it is vastly undervalued for Germany. A single Germany currency would be much stronger. Comparable to the strong Swiss Franc. The Euro however is a very overvalued currency for the PIGS. So in this matter Germany is very comparable to China.
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:48 AM
 
277 posts, read 228,678 times
Reputation: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post
Not quite the GDP of California is actually much stronger than and they have more industries in terms of technology, entertainment, agriculture, and natural resources.

The biggest problem with Greece is simply put they have no industrial, technological, or natural resources necessary to provide the tax revenue they need to run the country. Olive oil and tourism just aren't enough to provide the economic growth they need.

The reality is that Greece should have NEVER been allowed into the EU to begin with. Now it's up to the folks in the EU to either pass the hat and put together not only a fiscal but long term economic program to make Greece economically sustainable or watch Italy, Spain, Portugal and possibly Ireland get caught up in sovereign debt contagion that will take YEARS to sort out and will be a drag on global economic growth.
correct there never should have been the EU..it was truely a socialist/globalist mistake
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:51 AM
 
1,350 posts, read 2,299,479 times
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That's kinda stupid to say Marine. The people and states of Europe can decide for themselves what they want to do and how to govern themselves, much like the United States
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:54 AM
 
10,854 posts, read 9,297,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsjustmeagain View Post
Germany will do what is best for Germany. Right now it is austerity. The rest of Europe has to take the medicine, now. There is no alternative.
If Germany can't export to it's European trade partners that's not in Germany's best interests.

Germany's top trading partners are in this order:

France
United States
Netherlands
United Kingdom
People's Republic of China
Italy
Austria
Switzerland
Poland
Spain

The austerity issue is just one part of the problem.

Counties like Spain, Italy, Ireland, and Portugal have agreed to austerity measures.

If Germany sits on its *ss and keep screaming "Austerity, Austerity, Austerity" without putting together a package to help the other EU countries it's impossible for the ensuing economic fallout without the it directly affecting the German economy.

Germany has to deal with what the United States has dealt with since the end of World War II and that's "You gotta pay the cost to be the boss".

There is no such thing as leadership without responsibility. It's a huge problem right now that the German government and the German people are not ready and willing to step up.
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Old 05-31-2012, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,054 posts, read 18,275,532 times
Reputation: 3826
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post
If Germany can't export to it's European trade partners that's not in Germany's best interests.

Germany's top trading partners are in this order:

France
United States
Netherlands
United Kingdom
People's Republic of China
Italy
Austria
Switzerland
Poland
Spain

The austerity issue is just one part of the problem.

Counties like Spain, Italy, Ireland, and Portugal have agreed to austerity measures.

If Germany sits on its *ss and keep screaming "Austerity, Austerity, Austerity" without putting together a package to help the other EU countries it's impossible for the ensuing economic fallout without the it directly affecting the German economy.

Germany has to deal with what the United States has dealt with since the end of World War II and that's "You gotta pay the cost to be the boss".

There is no such thing as leadership without responsibility. It's a huge problem right now that the German government and the German people are not ready and willing to step up.
Many of these customers will still be in good shape even with the demise of the PIGS. I wouldn't believe the hype and doom/gloom surrounding those with vested interests in maintaining the Euro-status quo. Germany will still be the boss, even more so, if it lets go of the PIGS. Relative to other countries in the Eurozone, it will still be king.
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Old 05-31-2012, 12:08 PM
 
2,385 posts, read 1,586,897 times
Reputation: 923
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post
If Germany can't export to it's European trade partners that's not in Germany's best interests.

Germany's top trading partners are in this order:

France
United States
Netherlands
United Kingdom
People's Republic of China
Italy
Austria
Switzerland
Poland
Spain

The austerity issue is just one part of the problem.

Counties like Spain, Italy, Ireland, and Portugal have agreed to austerity measures.

If Germany sits on its *ss and keep screaming "Austerity, Austerity, Austerity" without putting together a package to help the other EU countries it's impossible for the ensuing economic fallout without the it directly affecting the German economy.

Germany has to deal with what the United States has dealt with since the end of World War II and that's "You gotta pay the cost to be the boss".

There is no such thing as leadership without responsibility. It's a huge problem right now that the German government and the German people are not ready and willing to step up.
There is already a EU growth summit scheduled for next month. So what are you harping about? Germany is commited to some growth stimulating actions. It is not throwing good money after bad money like the rest of Europe demands, however.
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