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Why is it that you only source your prejudiced mis'information' from conservative religious anti-gay sources?
You can remain in denial about me being conservative and cold hard logical facts being religious all you want. You're the one who's misinformed, you just have a monopoly on the media and people are stupid, which is why you THINK you have the moral and factual highground. You don't..neither does religion, in case you want to go off on another hissy fit again.
Even if same sex attractions were 100% pre-disposed at birth which is isn't (this has been known for years), the body's hetero design and the physical and mental problems that result (not referring to societal ignorance here), plus FREE WILL, all suggest that one is MEANT to be that way, or that one should not be forced to adopt a lifestyle, though it is understandable why one might. Socio-environmental factors, as with EVERYONE's development in every nation on earth, play a much larger factor.
Born that way does not mean designed that way.
If you can get this through your presumably male affirmation-hunger obsessed mind, no one is blaming you for your feelings, nor "rejecting" or "not accepting you", but you need to recognize there are REAL risks associated with the lifestyle promoted by the glbt lobby, and religious people DO add to your discomfort but they certainly didn't and still don't make you guys disproportionately represented amongst physical and mental health stats.
I'd ask you to stop accusing me of lying and being conservative but I understand the gay lobby totally rules most Americans' minds and their media, and like many followers it just isn't possible to conduct a civil logical convo. Your fantasy trumps facts any day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnlyCurious
Both are undesirable and should be handled appropriately. Interestingly though, it also depends on what one defines as homophobia and racism.
Regarding homophobia, I personally don't define it as rational, scientific discourse that offers helpful and necessary advice to glbts. That is, I think their lobby has done a poor job of informing them of the real risks involved with certain lifestyles, and has even promoted it, not to mention misleading them on the causes and possible advantages that therapy may offer, as for sexual addiction. And forcing them to think that born that way means designed or destined to be that way, regardless of the consequences. It's one big mess on the whole glbt issue.
People insulting them for their feelings, blaming them for unfortunate life situations, denying them legal rights...now that I would consider homophobia.
Nothing "religious" "anti-gay" or conservative about this, man. Keep braying about it all you want, though.
Last edited by OnlyCurious; 01-02-2013 at 11:50 AM..
Born that way does not mean designed that way.
If you can get this through your presumably male affirmation-hunger obsessed mind, no one is blaming you for your feelings, nor "rejecting" or "not accepting you", but you need to recognize there are REAL risks associated with the lifestyle promoted by the glbt lobby, and religious people DO add to your discomfort but they certainly didn't and still don't make you guys disproportionately represented amongst physical and mental health stats.
I'd ask you to stop accusing me of lying and being conservative but I understand the gay lobby totally rules most Americans' minds and their media, and like many followers it just isn't possible to conduct a civil logical convo. Your fantasy trumps facts any day.
Nothing "religious" "anti-gay" or conservative about this, man. Keep braying about it all you want, though.
Thanks for playing. But the fact that you don't seem to grasp that sexuality is not a "lifestyle" that has any inherent risks in and of itself is your first fail. A monogamous, married gay couple living in suburbia has the same "lifestyle" as their heterosexual mongamous neighbors. Probably complete with a lackluster sex life, nights spent watching television and socializing with other couples and friends.
An urban dwelling promiscuous gay man has the same lifestyle as an urban dwelling promiscuous straight man. Sexual orientation is not the same as sexual actions.
Your second fail is to recognize that the only emotional baggage associated with sexuality is most always from EXTERNAL pressures and expectations - familial, community, religious.
Might there be some internalized disappointment or "outsider" thoughts with not being "of the majority" that comes with being a minority of any type - sexual, racial, ethnic - of course. But the roots of that feeling again come as reactions to external pressures.
Why would you think gays have something wrong with them? Do you feel that way about left-handed people, blue eyed people, red haired people? All of those are abnormal for humans and have been deemed "unnatural".
Why is it so hard for you to realize that pre-natal development can lead some people to develop a different orientation?
Do you find every single woman on Earth gorgeous and would want to date them? Or do you feel different attractions to various women, some stronger than others?
How is it any different for gays, aside from them viewing the traits and qualities of the same-sex more attractive than the opposite? Just like you may not find all women attractive, gays don't find the opposite sex attractive, or at least not enough to want a relationship with them.
Not sure why this is so difficult to grasp.
Because you and others who say the same are wrong.
Skin color, eye color, gender are all certain and unchangable. No comparison.
Some say they are gay as children, others not until they're older, others are bisexual...
Perhaps something does happen in the womb, or in genetics (yet unproven, the "gay gene" theory of the 90's was a fraud and newer research still doesn't prove one is born that way 100%) to give one a tendancy to homosexual behavior. Not much different than some having a tendency toward obesity, alcoholism, etc. Does that mean they should just follow their urges no matter what?
That being said, I'm not a homophobe and don't care what consenting adults do in the bedroom as it's not my business. But I do have a problem with people such as yourself spreading misinformation to promote a personal or political agenda.
Thanks for playing. But the fact that you don't seem to grasp that sexuality is not a "lifestyle" that has any inherent risks in and of itself is your first fail. A monogamous, married gay couple living in suburbia has the same "lifestyle" as their heterosexual mongamous neighbors. Probably complete with a lackluster sex life, nights spent watching television and socializing with other couples and friends.
An urban dwelling promiscuous gay man has the same lifestyle as an urban dwelling promiscuous straight man. Sexual orientation is not the same as sexual actions.
Your second fail is to recognize that the only emotional baggage associated with sexuality is most always from EXTERNAL pressures and expectations - familial, community, religious.
Might there be some internalized disappointment or "outsider" thoughts with not being "of the majority" that comes with being a minority of any type - sexual, racial, ethnic - of course. But the roots of that feeling again come as reactions to external pressures.
Oh boy I LOVE your strawman and ad hom responses! They never fail to amuse me.
You all can't seem to grasp the fact that even promiscuous straight men = risky behaviour and -surprisingly to me- STILL don't suffer the same fate as men who have sex with men. Thank you for stating that "Sexual orientation is not the same as sexual actions"..I wish the glbt lobby would promote that and stop advocating dangerous activities. That is exactly what I've been saying in my related posts...that people need to stay away from certain actions regardless of orientation. That clearly isn't the case, as represented by numerous CDC and other health stats, and the fact that every once in awhile a new strain of HIV or some other horrible infection will appear in usually a gay male population...clearly, most people aren't receiving that message. And whose fault is that? Who has their viewpoints shamelessly represented 24/7 by the media and a well funded lobby at their disposal for just 3% of the population? Gay activists themselves and regular gltb lament their risky behaviour.
Please. You're in denial, just like every glbt here.
Quote:
Your second fail is to recognize that the only emotional baggage associated with sexuality is most always from EXTERNAL pressures and expectations - familial, community, religious.
Sure, sure. Your family and religion created your hetero body and natural inclinations/instinct, plus all those evil straight people of any culture who dared to wonder why women would assume a masculine disposition and engage in harmful activities, or men would want to subject themselves to humiliating "relationships" just for a little male affection. No sir. They certainly weren't helped much by societal ignorance as no one lives in a bubble, but the root causes of their feelings for so many stem from lack of male identity and gender affirmation, gender hurt, abuse, religious shaming exacerbating the above, etc etc. The feelings themselves are rooted in lacking, pain, shame, hurt. Even in a place like the Netherlands, where the craziness of the US is absent, and other such places, many gay men still suffer physical and mental health problems, just as much as those in the US. I personally know quite a few gay men who are fine and minimally affected, because their life situations were fortunate BUT...they KNOW what is dangerous for them and what is not, and one has received therapy to deal with sex addiction. They're certainly not in denial about what the gay lifestyle is about and much of what I know I learnt from them.
Your error is blaming every single issue of the glbt person on society and thus negating the cause-action-consequence-reaction cycle that is a part of life. I'm all for providing maximum support for these people as long as it's reasonable. Part of people's rights is the right to KNOW, regardless of how many appreciate it.
Because you and others who say the same are wrong.
Skin color, eye color, gender are all certain and unchangable. No comparison.
Some say they are gay as children, others not until they're older, others are bisexual...
Perhaps something does happen in the womb, or in genetics (yet unproven, the "gay gene" theory of the 90's was a fraud and newer research still doesn't prove one is born that way 100%) to give one a tendancy to homosexual behavior. Not much different than some having a tendency toward obesity, alcoholism, etc. Does that mean they should just follow their urges no matter what?
That being said, I'm not a homophobe and don't care what consenting adults do in the bedroom as it's not my business. But I do have a problem with people such as yourself spreading misinformation to promote a personal or political agenda.
Your thinking is logical and your conclusion rational. One cannot blame the general glbt population for being exploited by seemingly everyone, and certainly not for their developmental feelings. That is why they deserve the objective truth, not emotional ideologies from their lobby or the religious.
Recall this: even if there was a gene, born that way does not mean designed that way, and one should be able to choose how to live, either way, and have access to proper care and info, which the glbt lobby currently deny. People are born with many things, and predisposed does not mean something WILL occur, or that it SHOULD occur. If you have a little time, the issues you raised can be answered with my first post on this topic:
I COMPLETELY support same sex marriage, all the legal rights etc.
I opppose ALL bullying..whether by religious folk, ignorant folk, and even the GLBT lobby with their silly outing crap.
I disagree with many of the things the GLBT lobby attempts to promote, like denying people legit info on causation, using stupid celebs to promote careless risky behaviour when more than half of HIV infections occur in gay men, not promoting access to therapy to at least assist with sex addiction, promoting dangerous activities in the name of tolerance (like Kevin Jennings, glsen and the fistgate thing).
Disagreeing with behaviour does not = hatred or bullying. These folks are victims of developmental problems that were caused by factors totally out of their control.
These people need love, support, kindness, assistance and guidance. It isn't their fault they've been denied crucial info and support that could have saved many lives.
Peace.
You will see that for many of these people, especially the men, social and environmental factors play a huge part in developing the feelings. and of course no one chooses their environment or their influences. So your premise of people's tendencies is valid; just because you may be predisposed to same sex orientation and are unfortunate to be in social-environmental atmosphere that fosters it, does not mean you are meant to live that way. That is the person's choice, and should not mean they can't resist harmful activities etc. It explains your feelings and tendencies and does not negate rights but certainly isn't comparable to eye colour, skin colour, sex as you said.
Thanks for playing. But the fact that you don't seem to grasp that sexuality is not a "lifestyle" that has any inherent risks in and of itself is your first fail. A monogamous, married gay couple living in suburbia has the same "lifestyle" as their heterosexual mongamous neighbors. Probably complete with a lackluster sex life, nights spent watching television and socializing with other couples and friends.
An urban dwelling promiscuous gay man has the same lifestyle as an urban dwelling promiscuous straight man. Sexual orientation is not the same as sexual actions.
Your second fail is to recognize that the only emotional baggage associated with sexuality is most always from EXTERNAL pressures and expectations - familial, community, religious.
Might there be some internalized disappointment or "outsider" thoughts with not being "of the majority" that comes with being a minority of any type - sexual, racial, ethnic - of course. But the roots of that feeling again come as reactions to external pressures.
1. first example is probably 70% to 80% correct
2. second example is 100% false classic epic fail...Urban Homosexuals have 100's to 1,000's Sexual Partners.
3. Some love to call me a homophobe but I'm not (because I agree with all of the rights that Homosexuals have out here in California) "which is equal to those of heterosexuals" ours only bone of contention is GAY MARRIAGE which is just another form or name for DOMESTIC PARTNERSHIPS.
Oh boy I LOVE your strawman and ad hom responses! They never fail to amuse me.
You all can't seem to grasp the fact that even promiscuous straight men = risky behaviour and -surprisingly to me- STILL don't suffer the same fate as men who have sex with men.
The sad reality is that HIV is most easily spread through a particular form of sex that gay men (not gay women) engage in at rates higher - but not multitudes higher - than straight people.
UNSAFE SEX practices and especially, unsafe promiscuity are where you need to focus your energy then. Not the sex act per se.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnlyCurious
Thank you for stating that "Sexual orientation is not the same as sexual actions"..I wish the glbt lobby would promote that and stop advocating dangerous activities. That is exactly what I've been saying in my related posts...that people need to stay away from certain actions regardless of orientation.
There is no "glbt lobby" that promotes unsafe sex. Put up or shut up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnlyCurious
That clearly isn't the case, as represented by numerous CDC and other health stats, and the fact that every once in awhile a new strain of HIV or some other horrible infection will appear in usually a gay male population...clearly, most people aren't receiving that message. And whose fault is that? Who has their viewpoints shamelessly represented 24/7 by the media and a well funded lobby at their disposal for just 3% of the population? Gay activists themselves and regular gltb lament their risky behaviour.
Please. You're in denial, just like every glbt here.
Your train is going of the rails real quick. Your bizarre infatuation with the "glbt lobby" or "media" is a tell tale sign of someone who consumes entirely too much "alternative right wing media." Pseudo-intellectual clap trap.
The problem, genius, is essentially MEN. Straight men's proclivities to have sex as much and with as many partners as possible is only hampered by women, who do not have as much proclivity for same. So, straight men can thank women for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnlyCurious
Sure, sure. Your family and religion created your hetero body and natural inclinations/instinct, plus all those evil straight people of any culture who dared to wonder why women would assume a masculine disposition and engage in harmful activities, or men would want to subject themselves to humiliating "relationships" just for a little male affection. No sir. They certainly weren't helped much by societal ignorance as no one lives in a bubble, but the root causes of their feelings for so many stem from lack of male identity and gender affirmation, gender hurt, abuse, religious shaming exacerbating the above, etc etc. The feelings themselves are rooted in lacking, pain, shame, hurt. Even in a place like the Netherlands, where the craziness of the US is absent, and other such places, many gay men still suffer physical and mental health problems, just as much as those in the US. I personally know quite a few gay men who are fine and minimally affected, because their life situations were fortunate BUT...they KNOW what is dangerous for them and what is not, and one has received therapy to deal with sex addiction. They're certainly not in denial about what the gay lifestyle is about and much of what I know I learnt from them.
ZZZZZZZ.... oh, what? I'm sorry, your boring little rant here is neither profound, scientifically, psychologically or even sociologically sound.
I'll listen to the experts, thank you.
Let's repeat: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE GAY LIFESTYLE. There are dangerous lifestyles in any community, and your focus on just ONE with your moralizing tone betrays your pretentions of genuine concern.
I know a straight couple that is divorced from their previous partners and engage in casual swinging. They are NOT living the same "straight lifestyle" as my mother!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnlyCurious
Your error is blaming every single issue of the glbt person on society and thus negating the cause-action-consequence-reaction cycle that is a part of life. I'm all for providing maximum support for these people as long as it's reasonable. Part of people's rights is the right to KNOW, regardless of how many appreciate it.
Your "right to know" is "dissemination of biased and unnuanced information" that is not helpful to ANYONE except the most emotionally damaged, gullible and (quite frankly, stupid) among us. But that's OK, wannabe headshrinks and theorists such as yourself have preyed on the ignorance of fools for centuries. I don't know why we would expect it to go away in the 21st century.
You'd be surprised. Especially when kids are added to the mix.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howest2008
2. second example is 100% false classic epic fail...Urban Homosexuals have 100's to 1,000's Sexual Partners.
According to ACTUAL and more recent studies done, the following conclusions can be drawn:
There is a segment of gay men (roughly 13% of the total of gay men) who are promiscuous to a degree that straight men are not. That is, 87% of gay men display levels of promiscuity that are parallel to those of unmarried straight men.
The gay men’s statistics track fairly closely with the straight men’s—up to a point. Where we see a significant discrepancy is at the very high levels of promiscuity (i.e. 20–100, and over 100 partners). This finding corroborates other surveys I’ve seen.
3. Some love to call me a homophobe but I'm not (because I agree with all of the rights that Homosexuals have out here in California) "which is equal to those of heterosexuals" ours only bone of contention is GAY MARRIAGE which is just another form or name for DOMESTIC PARTNERSHIPS.
You'd be surprised. Especially when kids are added to the mix.
According to ACTUAL and more recent studies done, the following conclusions can be drawn:
There is a segment of gay men (roughly 13% of the total of gay men) who are promiscuous to a degree that straight men are not. That is, 87% of gay men display levels of promiscuity that are parallel to those of unmarried straight men.
The gay men’s statistics track fairly closely with the straight men’s—up to a point. Where we see a significant discrepancy is at the very high levels of promiscuity (i.e. 20–100, and over 100 partners). This finding corroborates other surveys I’ve seen.
There is no separation of the two institutions they are totally different ( Male/Female Domestic Relationship Institutions) ( Male/Male or Female/Female Relationship Institutions ) the only thing stirring this fight is the Psychology Of Having The Same Name On The Institutions Documents As Heterosexuals.
This is nothing like African American and Caucasian American Separate but Equal( Education)( Public Facilities ) where the Blacks got 20% and the Whites got 80% of the Civil Rights Granted To American Citizens ( Domestic Partnerships and Civil Unions Can Give The Same Civil Rights to
Gays as Heterosexual Marriage ) " with the Federal Government Finally Signing Off On It " .....
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Oh boy I LOVE your strawman and ad hom responses! They never fail to amuse me.
