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Old 06-07-2012, 07:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
What do you claim I am "making up"?
Pretty much everything you post on this topic

 
Old 06-07-2012, 07:35 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,384,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Because to date - there is no evidence to support a claim that sexual preference has biological causes.
*snort*

I suppose it IS hard to see all the evidence when you deliberately squeeze your eyes shut, stick your fingers in your ears and sing lalaahlaa.
 
Old 06-07-2012, 07:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
That is right - the "experts" dont know - so how do you justify a default position when the data is inconclusive?
Actually the 'experts' do know quite a lot. You just refuse to look at the evidence.
 
Old 06-07-2012, 07:39 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,384,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Yes - but you are asking someone who has not chosen to be a homosexual a question that would be better answered by one who has.
So when did you first realise you were attracted to males?
 
Old 06-07-2012, 07:46 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,384,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Of course I did - sexual preference is a choice. If it is possible to have a preference - then a choice must be involved.
Who's talking about 'preference'. Most people in this thread are talking about sexual orientation. No choice involved. Unless you think a fetus can 'choose' it's genetic makeup and the timing and levels of hormones in the uterine environment.
 
Old 06-07-2012, 07:47 AM
 
15,706 posts, read 11,774,139 times
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I still can't believe so many people believe being gay is a choice. Of all the anti-gay claims out there, that one to me is the most ridiculous.
 
Old 06-07-2012, 07:55 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,384,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
I am not bisexual - I choose to be attracted to only one gender.

There is no evidence that sexual preference has biological causes.
Here's some evidence for you to choose to pretend doesn't exist.... yet again:


"Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment."

Royal College of Psychiatrists


And how about some peer-reviewed studies published in reputable professional Journals?

"There's a converging line of evidence between the hormonal studies, the genetic studies , and the neuroanatomical studies. My research has identified candidate genes within these new chromosomal regions that could link together all of these different findings”

Mustanski, B. S.; DuPree, M. G.; Nievergelt, C. M.; Bocklandt, S.; Schork, N. J.; Hamer, D. H. (2005)
A genomewide scan of male sexual orientation. [Hum Genet. 2005] - PubMed result



Sexual hormones and the brain: an essential alliance for sexual identity and sexual orientation (2010)
Endocr Dev. 2010;17:22-35. Epub 2009 Nov 24. Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF.

The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb.

However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in trans-sexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain.

There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.



Brain scans have provided the most compelling evidence yet that being gay or straight is a biologically fixed trait.

The scans reveal that in gay people, key structures of the brain governing emotion, mood, anxiety and aggressiveness resemble those in straight people of the opposite sex.

"This is the most robust measure so far of cerebral differences between homosexual and heterosexual subjects," she says.
Previous studies have also shown differences inbrain architecture and activity between gay and straight people, but most relied on people's responses to sexuality driven cues that could have been learned, such as rating the attractiveness of male or female faces.

Brain symmetry
To get round this, Savic and her colleague, Per Lindström, chose to measure brain parameters likely to have been fixed at birth.

"That was the whole point of the study, to show parameters that differ, but which couldn't be altered by learning or cognitive processes," says Savic.
"This study demonstrates that homosexuals of both sexes show strong cross-sex shifts in brain symmetry," says Qazi Rahman, a leading researcher on sexual orientation at Queen Mary college, University of London, UK.

"The connectivity differences reported in the amygdala are striking."
"Paradoxically, it's more informative to look at things that have no direct connection with sexual orientation, and that's where this study scores," says Simon LeVay, a prominent US author who in 1991 reported finding differences(pdf) in a part of the brain called the hypothalamus between straight and gay men.

PET and MRI show differences in cerebral asymmetry and functional connectivity between homo- and heterosexual subjects
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/20...66105.abstract




__________________________________________________ ______



Relationships among childhood sex-atypical be... [Arch Sex Behav. 2002] - PubMed - NCBI

Several studies report that the cognitive performance of gay males is more typical of heterosexual females than heterosexual males.

Furthermore, the brain waves of gay males while performing verbal and spatial tasks are more similar to heterosexual females than males or significantly different from both."

Relationships among childhood sex-atypical behavior, spatial ability, handedness, and sexual orientation in men. Cohen KM. Arch Sex Behav. (2002)
________________________________________________


And a few more brain studies:

Sexual orientation and its basis in brain structure and function

PET and MRI show differences in cerebral asymmetry and functional connectivity between homo- and heterosexual subjects

Brain response to putative pheromones in homosexual men

Sexual orientation and the size of the anterior commissure in the human brain

Brain response to putative pheromones in lesbian women

http://reberlab.psych.northwestern.e...ron_BN2007.pdf

and a few more studies:

And a few more:

Camperio Ciani, A., Cermelli, P., & Zanzotto, G. (2008). Sexually
antagonistic selection in human male homosexuality. Plos One, in
press.

Rahman, Q., Collins, A., Morrison, M., Orrells, J. C., Cadinouche, K.,
Greenfield, S., et al. (2008). Maternal inheritance and familial
fecundity factors in male homosexuality. Archives of Sexual
Behavior, 37.

Camperio Ciani, A., Iemmola, F., & Lombardi, L. (2008). Male
homosexuality partly correlates with an increased androphilia
and fecundity in females from maternal line

Vasey, P. L., & VanderLaan, D. P. (2007). Birth order and male
androphilia in Samoan fa’afafine. Proceedings of the Royal
Society of London, Series B: Biological Sciences, 274, 1437–1442.

Blanchard, R., & Lippa, R. A. (2007). Birth order, sibling sex ratio,
handedness, and sexual orientation of male and female participants
Archives of Sexual Behavior, 36, 163–176.

Savolainen,V.,&Lehmann,L. (2007). Genetics and bisexuality. Nature,
445, 158–159.

Bogaert, A. F. (2006). Biological versus nonbiological older brothers
and men’s sexual orientation. Proceedings of the National
Academy of Sciences, 103, 10771–10774.

Rahman, Q., & Hull, M. S. (2005). An empirical test of the kin
selection hypothesis for male homosexuality. Archives of Sexual
Behavior, 34, 461–467.

King, M., Green, J., Osborn, D. P. J., Arkell, J., Hetherton, J., &
Pereira, E. (2005). Family size in white gay and heterosexual men.
Archives of Sexual Behavior, 34, 117–122.

Camperio Ciani, A., Corna, F., & Capiluppi, C. (2004). Evidence for
maternally inherited factors favouring male homosexuality and
promoting female fecundity. Proceedings of the Royal Society of
London, Series B: Biological Sciences, 271, 2217–2221.

DuPree,M.G.,Mustanski, B. S.,Bocklandt, S., Nievergelt, C.,&Hamer,
D. H. (2004). A candidate gene study of CYP19 (aromatase) and
male sexual orientation. Behavior Genetics, 34, 243–250.

Blanchard, R. (2004). Quantitative and theoretical analyses of the
relation between older brothers and homosexuality in men.
Journal of Theoretical Biology, 230, 173–187.

Bobrow, D., & Bailey, J. M. (2001). Is male homosexuality maintained
via kin selection? Evolution and Human Behavior, 22, 361–368.

Bailey, J. M., Pillard, R. C., Dawood, K., Miller, M. B., Farrer, L. A.,
Tivedi, S., et al. (1999). A family history study of male sexual
orientation using three independent samples. Behavior Genetics,
29, 79–86.

Blanchard, R. (1997). Birth order and sibling sex ratio in homosexual
versus heterosexual males and females. Annual Review of Sex
Research, 8, 27–67.

Blanchard, R., & Klassen, P. (1997). H-Y antigen and homosexuality
in men. Journal of Theoretical Biology, 185, 373–378.

Hu,S., Pattatucci,A.M., Patterson, C.,Li,L.,Fulker,D.W.,Cherny, S.S.,
et al. (1995). Linkage between sexual orientation and chromosome
Xq28 in males but not in females. Nature Genetics, 11, 248–256.

Vasey, P. L. (1995). Homosexual behavior in primates: A review of
evidence and theory. International Journal of Primatology, 16,
173–204.

Hamer, D. H., Hu, S., Magnuson, V. L., Hu, N., & Pattattucci, A. M.
(1993). A linkage between DNA markers on the X chromosome
and male sexual orientation. Science, 261, 321–327.


Bailey, J. M., & Pillard, R. C. (1991). A genetic study of male sexual
orientation. Archives of General Psychiatry, 48, 1089–1096.
 
Old 06-07-2012, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
3,336 posts, read 6,942,354 times
Reputation: 2084
i was listening to the radio yesterday and mitt romney's ex national defense advisor, who is gay, was the guest. he was discussing the ostracism of gay conservatives

he said,
"the left thinks it is wrong for a gay person to be conservative and the right thinks it is wrong for a conservative to be gay."

so much truth in those words. definitely stuck with me and expanded my mind a little.
 
Old 06-07-2012, 07:59 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,384,541 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash255 View Post
If you decide to make a choice then you are bisexual. that only goes one way. If your body makes the decision than well you are either straight or gay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
And the evidence that demonstrates this to be true is - where?
It's called a penile plesmograph.

Or an fMRI brain scan.
 
Old 06-07-2012, 08:07 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,384,541 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144 View Post
Home - Joseph Nicolosi


Welcome!
For many years, I have been assisting men and women –mostly, persons who are still at a crossroads about their sexual identity– to reduce their same-sex attractions and explore their heterosexual potential.
Perhaps you experience same-sex attractions, but you believe you were not destined to be gay. You believe that these feelings do not represent “who you really are.”

If this is your belief, then we may be able to help you.
I am a licensed clinical psychologist who shares your vision of humanity. I believe that our bodies tell us who we are, and that our bodies have made us for heterosexuality.

I have helped many men reduce their unwanted same-sex attractions, so that they lose their compelling, life-disrupting power, and assisted them in exploring and developing their heterosexual potential.
Oh please. Not the 'pray-away-the-gay' Joseph Nicolosi from the relgious-based fringe anti-gay group NARTH.

He is one of the biggest jokes in the industry.
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