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Gracias por favor el Presidente Obama. Muchachos.....
Yep....we are all living the "dream"...heck....let's just embrace all of Mexico, Central and South America. They can All be US citizens. Heck....why stop there....let's just adopt the world.....
I think the American dream is still here. I just wish two things
1. It stop being touted as if it's the one and only dream the whole world should aspire to have. I'm pretty sure Europe, South America, etc.. has their own middle class dreams too.
2. The definition should be changed. In a lot of people's eyes the American dream is all about getting a lot of money and buying a big house with lots of cars in the drive way. A lot of people will also tell you if you're still renting you aren't successfull. If you haven't went to college you aren't successful. So on and so forth.
To me the American dream as with any other country's dream should be getting yourself to a point where YOU feel you are happy and have made it. Not the one size fits all. [Be married by 25, have a big house, a pet, 2 kids, preferably a boy and a girl, going to a private school, and most of all, suburban living]
If you feel that you have made it with your 50,000 dollar job renting in the city living the life you always wanted to live, then you have made it. If suburban living with children and lots of land is what you always wanted, you have made it also.
So IMO, it should be changed to The People's Dream or something idk. Just not this big and mighty "AMERICAN DREAM."
Oh Dear God...at risk of getting suspended, you sir are an idiot. If you don't like America as it should be, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!! We don't want you socialists here!!!
Where did you get the idea that America is "about getting a lot of money and buying a big house with lots of cars in the drive way"????
Dude, you are so far off the track it's almost comical. The TRUE American dream is about being FREE. Is Liberty a foreign concept to you?
If America were to fall under the repeated attacks of the communists, marxists, etc., where do you think you'll get the freedom of speech you now enjoy??:"
Oh Dear God...at risk of getting suspended, you sir are an idiot. If you don't like America as it should be, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!! We don't want you socialists here!!!
Where did you get the idea that America is "about getting a lot of money and buying a big house with lots of cars in the drive way"????
Dude, you are so far off the track it's almost comical. The TRUE American dream is about being FREE. Is Liberty a foreign concept to you?
If America were to fall under the repeated attacks of the communists, marxists, etc., where do you think you'll get the freedom of speech you now enjoy??:"
Freedom is being stolen from us.
Why am I not allowed to travel without people jeering at x-rays of my figure or being groped at the airport? Why am I considered a suspect every time I use a plane?
I never made it sound like that, what I was saying repeatedly, is that the poor were needed as shock troops to dispose of the existing ruling class, so Lenin, Trotsky and their ilk of gentry could place themselves in power.
In order to do that, they needed to somehow sway the rabble to their side. Lenin did this by pitching Marxism to the them, dispite abandoning nearly every principle, and never intending on ever implementing anything of the sort.
How do you know that? Did you talk to him?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude
Elections do not change the government, they change the leadership.
That's semantics as you could argue what constitutes change in government and what change in leadership. When nazis took over Germany was it a change of government or just a leadership?
We all know that Hitler's takeover was much more than just a leadership change was, it totally change the political, social and economic environemnt of the country, yet because it all happened through democratic process nobody ever calls Hitler's takeover a revolution. Got it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude
If a loudly outspoken candidate, protested the whole US Government, and shook his chains around the country, rallying the people to such a level, that the existing government simply resigned, and then they placed him in to power, where he promptly tore the Constitution up, and rewrote it, that would absolutely be considered a revolution.
Really? Hitler did just that yet nobody called it a revolution.
I don't agrree. I think to talk about a revolution you have to have a change in government that is forced and outside of the democratic process. Like a Cuban or American revolution.
Private property is not a vital interest of anyone.
Who gave you the right to speak on behalf of everyone?
Of course it is a vital interest: people often defend their property even sacrificing their lives. People often spend their entire lives to increase the amount of things they own. It's human nature we like to have. Posessing things gives us security. How can you deny it is a vital interest?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude
Funny, I was baptized Catholic, went to Catholic church many years.....never considered the pope my representitive.
Apparently despite being baptized you never considered yourself a Roman Catholic. Those who do accept the Pope as the highest authority of the church.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude
The only concept I share with an anarchist is the abolishment of the state
That's crazy enough. The is no way to abolish the state the same way no way to classless society. This is utopia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude
There were plenty of profits. How do you think Stalin could afford to shepherd the Soviet Union in to the cold war, build up the Kremlin, throw his self serving parades in Red Square, and drop statues of himself every where, and win the race to space? The state kept the profits, and paid the worker based on "labor value", which was determined by the "state", not by the traditional concept of labor value.
But of course. Communism does not event have a concept of value in a traditional sense which is based on law of supply and demand. You use capitalistic terms like "profits" or "value" when talking about communist economy. That by itself is funny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude
You have no "right" to own anything. That is a right afforded to you by a state, and protected by that state as well.
Yes. Because the state is an expression of common will of the majority. We estabslished the state to protect our individual rights.
That's why we need it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude
Depends on how you are defining equal.
There is only one definition of equal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude
Im going to assume you are talking about individual utility. Id agree with you there. However, capitalism severely punishes those with limited utility, as well as impedes those even with high utility, but few means.
That's commie pseudo-scientific babble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude
Communism does not limit a persons goals, abilities, or ambitions at all, unless of course a persons ambition is to enslave other people, rule other people, or dominate them by means of economic duress.
Of course it does. If you take away private property what incentive people have to use their abilities and have ambitions???
That's the problem with communism: it take away the most primal incentive - ability to posess.... Like it or not the greed makes the world go around. The greed makes people strive. Take a way the greed and you have a society when people sit on their asses all they or do just as much as they HAVE to to survive.
Why am I not allowed to travel without people jeering at x-rays of my figure or being groped at the airport? Why am I considered a suspect every time I use a plane?
I agree. Why do we nave to stop at red lights? Why at stop signs?
That's not what liberty is all about.
LOL
wah wah wah I wasn't born with a silverspoon either but I make well over 6 figures a year with much hard work and persistence. People stuck in poverty are there because of their own doing. Remove welfare, unemployment benefits, food stamps, financial aid and these people will get off their lazy collective butts and stop siphoning off the tax payer because they will not have food. If they can't survive, well this world is all about survival of the fittest, NOT survival of the tax payer leech.
Exactly right! The premise that if you are born into poverty you stay in poverty is wrong. So not true.
The Price of Inequality by Joseph Stigliz discusses America's future in the next 10-20 years due to income inequality resultingin a two class society. The haves and the have nots. The text below the video gives more detail. (Suggest reading reader comments on Amazon)
Bunk. The "American Dream" is alive and well. Too many successful people prove it. There are just too many lazy people that are not willing to put in a days work to make things happen for themselves.
Granted, liberals have put a lot of obstacles in our path, but it is still possible to achieve and become successful.
Slave labor. There has and will always be a class system in the country. If the dream were true it wouldn't be a dream, itd be a reality.
Slave labor? Oh, please! With an attitude like that, failure is a certainty.
Here's how it works: You get a job, and are paid according to what that job is worth to your employer to have you do it. You have agreed to the terms of your employment by accepting the job offer.
There is a pay scale range for that particular job. If you are inexperienced, you likely start at the bottom of that range. As you gain experience, and show your employer that you can handle the job, and are good, you get a raise. The first raise is generally at your 90 day review. Thereafter, reviews are usually every 6 months.
If you continue to do well, you will likely continue to receive raises, unless there is no growth in your performance. Some people do not put forth the effort to grow beyond a certain point. They are not achievers. They will never get ahead. And since that particular job is worth only so much to the employer, there reaches a point where they cannot continue to give you raises. You'll have to do more to get more.
However if you are not one of those people, you will strive to learn more, take on more responsibility, and likely be promoted to another job, perhaps supervisor, and beyond that, manager of a department.
When you become a department manager, you will receive a salary, and likely be responsible for a budget. That means you get paid more, but more is also expected. A manager that is responsible for a budget may also be manager of a department that is a "profit center" (a field service department, for example). Someone who is expected to turn a profit for the company also gets paid more.
Now, I ask, where is the slave labor in this?
When I was working as a technician on the bench, I moved from there to field service, then into the marketing/sales department, and supervisor of three women who were doing order entry.
I had to travel some too. But remember, I started out as a bench tech. I never thought of myself as "slave labor."
Exactly right! The premise that if you are born into poverty you stay in poverty is wrong. So not true.
You're ignoring the reality. On 9 out of 100 ever move out of the lowest income quintile. Almost every one of them simply move from the lowest up one quintile. Many of those are simply being displaced on the upper levels of their starting quintile by ppl dropping into the bottom quintile from above.
Fact is it is extremely rare for some starting at the bottom to move up more than one quintile, much less move up from the bottom quintile to the top quintile.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy
Bunk. The "American Dream" is alive and well. Too many successful people prove it. There are just too many lazy people that are not willing to put in a days work to make things happen for themselves.
Granted, liberals have put a lot of obstacles in our path, but it is still possible to achieve and become successful.
Nonsense, ppl at the bottom work harder then most ppl. Many have more than one job. When I was I kid, I had a morning paper route and two afternoon paper routes. During the summer I walked three miles after the morning route to a country club and caddied 18 holes (a loop). I'd walk back home and do the afternoon routes. After I got experience I did two loops and subbed out my afternoon routes to other kids.
Made good money, that helped support our family, my dad had lost 3 1/2 fingers in a punch press and being the oldest son meant I needed to pitch in.
I suppose you call my childhood labors, being a lazy slob.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy
Slave labor? Oh, please! With an attitude like that, failure is a certainty.
Here's how it works: You get a job, and are paid according to what that job is worth to your employer to have you do it. You have agreed to the terms of your employment by accepting the job offer.
There is a pay scale range for that particular job. If you are inexperienced, you likely start at the bottom of that range. As you gain experience, and show your employer that you can handle the job, and are good, you get a raise. The first raise is generally at your 90 day review. Thereafter, reviews are usually every 6 months.
If you continue to do well, you will likely continue to receive raises, unless there is no growth in your performance. Some people do not put forth the effort to grow beyond a certain point. They are not achievers. They will never get ahead. And since that particular job is worth only so much to the employer, there reaches a point where they cannot continue to give you raises. You'll have to do more to get more.
However if you are not one of those people, you will strive to learn more, take on more responsibility, and likely be promoted to another job, perhaps supervisor, and beyond that, manager of a department.
When you become a department manager, you will receive a salary, and likely be responsible for a budget. That means you get paid more, but more is also expected. A manager that is responsible for a budget may also be manager of a department that is a "profit center" (a field service department, for example). Someone who is expected to turn a profit for the company also gets paid more.
Now, I ask, where is the slave labor in this?
When I was working as a technician on the bench, I moved from there to field service, then into the marketing/sales department, and supervisor of three women who were doing order entry.
I had to travel some too. But remember, I started out as a bench tech. I never thought of myself as "slave labor."
Cute narrative, probable straight out of a business management text book. Problem is it bears little resemblance to reality. Most workers are hired and fired based on their cost. If someone is replacable with a cheaper worker the boss is going to cut costs. When a boss controls this "worth" or labor it will always be lower and his take will always be higher.
I have seen the calculations they make. Working in the consulting engineering field everyone has a value placed on them when the firm responds to requests for proposals. You bid the job based on manhours times billable rate. It is enlighting how the process works. My "overhead" was almost twice my hourly rate. For some it was three times. Costs governed everything and if you could bill more hours at a senior engineer's rate but have the work done by lower grades, so much the better.
There is no allegiance to workers. You are only a cost center and if you don't keep producing that profit you're gone. Forget the human factor, forget a man that loses 3 1/2 fingers in your punch press, they are no longer "profitable" and you need to shed any drain on profits.
I once found a head knocker (an engineering goof that would have put part of a bar truss "too low" in a walkway.) Saved the company $200,000 avoiding more costly fixes. Becuz it was found before the bearing plates were set they were able to add two course of masonry block to raise the roof. What did I get? A layoff when the project closed out becuz i had "embarrassed" the engineer, a more profitable cost center, that missed the goof in their design.
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