Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-29-2007, 07:52 AM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,277 posts, read 54,024,644 times
Reputation: 40561

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
Neither am I. Heck, they tried to get me killed!

Pinochet was a prick, but he never tried to nuke us, dude! He didn't send his army to Africa to foment communist takeovers! And as you (probably) know, US friction with Cuba was still iffy when Castro took power. Most Americans WANTED to support him. Castro could have had the US behind him, but he stabbed us in the back when he sentenced his sunny island to fifty years (and counting) of a shabby, gray collectivism.

You're right about oil. But there are other things. Like chromium. Like they had in South Africa. Besides, isn't it unfair to compare the desire for a world modeled after a Marxist poilce state, to a country securing raw materials so that its people can go to work inventing, innovating, and discovering, to improve the standard of living for the entire world?

I mean, I'm just saying.
You're correct, Pinochet was a prick, a US backed prick. He may not have sent his army to Africa but he didn't send it to southesat Asia either. And who really tried to nuke us? I think in many ways it was just more political posturing that almost stepped over the line.

The point I've been trying to make is that trying to paint a black and white picture of the US always doing the correct, moral thing and our enemies always being in the wrong is just too simplistic and naive to allow for a reasonable discussion.

On other words I don't believe it should be "America right or wrong", I believe in "America, great when we're right, if it's wrong let's fix it"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-29-2007, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Hughes County, Oklahoma
3,160 posts, read 10,584,084 times
Reputation: 1145
I think the US sugar lobby has something to do with why we still have the trade embargo.

I don't have anything against Cuba.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-29-2007, 10:00 AM
 
17,290 posts, read 29,292,406 times
Reputation: 8690
Castro is no worse than any of a dozen dictatorships in the world we support explicitly or implicitly.

We still "hate" Cuba because the powerful Miami Cuban lobby, and South Florida continues to groan under the weight of "wet foot, dry foot" because of it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-29-2007, 10:25 AM
 
2,141 posts, read 7,844,261 times
Reputation: 1272
Quote:
Originally Posted by cre8 View Post
I saw a political cartoon in 1992. A new American president, Bill Clinton, was standing on the shores of Florida yelling to Cuba, "I'll get you Castro." Castro stood silently on the shores of Cuba next to a blackboard with a whole bunch of names crossed out: Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Regan, Bush, and Clinton. Fast-forward a few years and Castro has just about crossed out a second Bush name, and stands ready to cross out yet another Clinton.
I agree with these sentiments. Even though they may not live well, the people of Cuba have survived without U.S. support for over 50 years and I think it drives our government crazy. Granted, many U.S. citizens have been sending money to relatives in Cuba, but our government has tried many times to stop that. Now they're limiting the amount of time that U.S. citizens here can go and visit relatives there. However, Canadians, Mexicans and Europeans can freely visit Cuba so Cuba has been deriving tourism dollars from other countries. I think this is a huge point of frustration with our own government. It'll be interesting to see what our country does upon Castro's passing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-29-2007, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,170 posts, read 24,237,000 times
Reputation: 15284
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
You're correct, Pinochet was a prick, a US backed prick. He may not have sent his army to Africa but he didn't send it to southesat Asia either. And who really tried to nuke us? I think in many ways it was just more political posturing that almost stepped over the line.

The point I've been trying to make is that trying to paint a black and white picture of the US always doing the correct, moral thing and our enemies always being in the wrong is just too simplistic and naive to allow for a reasonable discussion.

On other words I don't believe it should be "America right or wrong", I believe in "America, great when we're right, if it's wrong let's fix it"
Pretty hard to disagree with that. Thanks for the interesting conversation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2007, 03:50 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
9,297 posts, read 14,192,734 times
Reputation: 10013
Quote:
Originally Posted by peggydavis View Post
I think the US sugar lobby has something to do with why we still have the trade embargo.

I don't have anything against Cuba.

Interesting point. It may be also worth pointing out that Palm Beach County, two counties north of Cuban-dominated Dade, and which historically has significant trade links with the Caribbean, hosts some of the US's major sugar production facilities, just south of Lake Ockeechobee (smells a lot like dung though, nevertheless I do buy Palm Beach County-made brown sugar, always support local agriculture when possible).

Again, I'm sure the majority of US citizens do not give a hoot about Cuba, and probably a significant portion of them could not even place it on a map (like Massachusetts is a city in Texas, who remembers that one?), save for a lucky hit with pin the tail on a donkey.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2007, 03:52 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
9,297 posts, read 14,192,734 times
Reputation: 10013
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
And who really tried to nuke us? I think in many ways it was just more political posturing that almost stepped over the line.

The point I've been trying to make is that trying to paint a black and white picture of the US always doing the correct, moral thing and our enemies always being in the wrong is just too simplistic and naive to allow for a reasonable discussion.

On other words I don't believe it should be "America right or wrong", I believe in "America, great when we're right, if it's wrong let's fix it"
Bravo!!!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2007, 04:15 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
9,297 posts, read 14,192,734 times
Reputation: 10013
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisak64 View Post
Even though they may not live well, the people of Cuba have survived without U.S. support for over 50 years and I think it drives our government crazy .... It'll be interesting to see what our country does upon Castro's passing.
I respectfully disagree. The balance of power in the US with an interest in Cuba one way or another is ambiguous (wet foot/dry foot policy, for example, already mentioned a few times): my impression is that, on balance, the Castro regime has enjoyed what I would call "perverse support" from the US over these past 50 years or so.

Whatever, yes, it will be interesting to see how this balance of power will react when Mr Castro passes away, and there is no guarantee that such shifting balance of power will have a decisive impact on the outcome ... I have the impression that some actors in this drama would be terrified if Cuba were to open up for investment and trade (someone mentioned sugar, for example), travel, tourism (including medical tourism), even as a retirement destination, while others will rejoice.

Again, US-based actors will keep banging out their ambiguous, and on balance ineffectual, policy on this side of the Florida Straits, and their reaction may or may not have a decisive impact on what happens on the island when Mr Castro passes away, if ever (my understanding is that some Cuban doctors are pretty good, I don't know).

The wild card in all this is Venezuela: in this thread we have touched upon the theme of "stepping over the line" in foreign policy and it could tip the balance of power into a less ambiguous direction (but, then again, maybe not).

Last edited by bale002; 09-30-2007 at 04:33 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2007, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Cali
3,951 posts, read 7,163,893 times
Reputation: 2293
The embargo against Cuba will end when the Cuban American lobby says so.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-20-2009, 05:44 PM
 
1 posts, read 2,074 times
Reputation: 10
plz answer dis question, i'm being graded on it >>>> " why is cuba cut off from the rest of the world'?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top