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I have come one step to believing in alien abduction because I suspect I have been abducted and placed in an alien zoo which craftily has recreated my reality. However a glitch in the system seems apparent since "pghquest" has posted a link to Ellen Brown.
Her view on credit would be much more in agreement with your opponent.
I post data to accurate information, regardless as to where it comes from.
I post data to accurate information, regardless as to where it comes from.
That's nice. So when are you going to post something about the current bulk of the money supply being debt issued to the debt saturated middle class by banks and largely owned by the wealthy? As a little reminder, the people who actually do any work is the middle class which is to the exclusion of lumpenproles and super wealthy asset barons who can only crack open a can of scam. The ejecta of the middle class, who see no sense in working to just pay interest, are lining up to create the welfare state you claim to hate.
The central idea of her book is to use public credit as a replacement for the bulk of our money supply. She particularly prefers credit in the form of state charted banks being the principle form of state financing which will also serve as the money supply. I may shiver at her solution, but at least she knows what the problem is. Why don't you, seeing as she is now your favorite source on the Federal Reserve?
All the liquidity of our economic system has been mortgage debt for the last 30 years. Yeah, one more ply of the same old tissue will finally fix this asinine system ...
Even the US Treasury Office confirms there was no surplus,
Just because you've read it repeatedly on Townhall and Freerepublic doesn't make it true.
Craig Steiner is defining the deficit as the increase in the national debt from one year to the next. That is factually incorrect. Debt and deficit are related but DIFFERENT things. His claim is that if there really was a budget surplus then the debt would have gone down and see,...it didn't, in fact it went up, so n'yah! Problem is: you don't calculate the budget deficit or budget surplus by looking at whether the national debt increases year to year. You calculate it on whether or not expenses exceeded revenues. Read the bold statement again. Let it sink in.
Also, every single budget deficit (or surplus) is a combination of on-budget and off-budget numbers. So, it's ridiculous to say that oh, Clinton didn't *really* have a budget surplus because he borrowed $123 billion to get his $125 billion budget surplus for 1999. And he borrowed $160 billion from the off-budget surplus to mask a $32 billion deficit in 2001. That's how the budget deficit is calculated....using both on-budget and off-budget numbers.
P.S. can you post the link to the U.S. Treasury statement? I must have missed it. Unless you just meant Steiner's link to the Treasury's national debt ticker.
Last edited by John Dark; 06-11-2012 at 02:16 PM..
Clinton took from the Social Security fund to create his surplus. That is, he wrote IOU's to Social Security. Never mind that it's all really just one big pot. So while the budget wasn't going in the hole, social security was.
In the end though Clinton didn't spend as recklessly as Bush and Obama.
Clinton took from the Social Security fund to create his surplus. That is, he wrote IOU's to Social Security. Never mind that it's all really just one big pot. So while the budget wasn't going in the hole, social security was.
In the end though Clinton didn't spend as recklessly as Bush and Obama.
Again what trust fund? What credit market actually exists above da guberment at this point? There is no such thing as revenue when you are the primary issuer of credit. Its their own poker chips. They don't need their own poker chips. They need what exists in the economy.
Now had a fund been built of gold, silver, grain or donut coupons, then a hard source of credit would exist. I suppose even Mexican Pesos would help too because then we might bend leaf blowers into bed pans, assuming they honored their debt, the Mexican Peso.
The trust fund rolled into general obligations is a real time tax here and now that cannot possibly fund anything 30 year from now. The fund is the people and the economy that exists then.
LIE, thats only public debt, not counting intragovernmental debt.. I find this particularly funny since you are the one claiming others dont know the difference between debt, and deficits.. ooh the humor
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Dark
P.S. can you post the link to the U.S. Treasury statement? I must have missed it. Unless you just meant Steiner's link to the Treasury's national debt ticker.
Just because you got a bit of additional overtime in the same month that you ate out less and ended up with $86 more than you budgeted that month, doesn't mean that your $5,000 credit card balance automatically went down by the money you saved.
And if you used the difference in the balance on your credit card bills from one month to the next to figure out if you had wound up with any extra money that month, it would show that you didn't (because the balance went up). But you would have to be pretty stupid to use your credit card balance to determine if you went over or under your monthly budget.
you don't calculate the budget deficit or budget surplus by looking at whether the national debt increases year to year.
P.S. That's not a statement from the U.S. Treasury. That's a table of raw figures that were misapplied and misinterpreted.
Quote:
Maybe you can point out where the debt went down under Clinton and prove me wrong.. I'll be waiting..
I can't for the same reason I can't score touchdowns in baseball.
you don't calculate the budget deficit or budget surplus by looking at whether the national debt increases year to year.
Last edited by John Dark; 06-11-2012 at 02:52 PM..
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