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Old 09-24-2007, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
87 posts, read 269,257 times
Reputation: 84

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I am attempting to understand why people in the US are so opposed to any form of socialized healthcare.

You have public schools, police forces, fire departments, highway agencies, courts and other forms of infrastructure, so what “gives” when it comes to healthcare? I have always believed that hospitals, schools, police stations and courts are “public” institutions, there for the good of every citizen. I have never even remotely thought that any of these services could be operated on a for-profit basis, by the private sector.

As a society, we all need these services to function, regardless of our income bracket. Those who are wealthy enough always have the option to “upgrade” to send their kids to private schools, have their own health insurance and go to private hospitals, or even to employ their own security guards.

Why is it that so many people seek to jeopardize the health of so many millions of people who can’t afford healthcare, as it is now (the multi-billion dollar industry)? I get the impression that many of you are cold enough to admit that you’d actually let a poor person die, just because it’s “their fault” that they’re poor.

There will always be a need for cleaners, lower end clerical workers, janitors, bus drivers, retail staff, etc. No matter how much we harp on about how everyone should be “marketable”, there will always be poor people, and not everyone is capable of being rich/self made, nor are they born with a silver spoon. Why should these people be denied something so basic as healthcare, just because a greedy few accuse them of “raping their precious wallets”? Ask yourself if this the kind of society that you want to live in?

People seem so afraid of any form of socialization of healthcare, almost as if it’s one step away from becoming a fully-fledged Communist state. So what if it means more government involvement in healthcare? We do VOTE for the government, remember? If we don’t’ like the job they’re doing, we have the power to vote for someone else, or get out on the streets and protest, because this is a free country, after all.

Would you rather continue with the status quo when it comes to healthcare, and give more and more of your “freedom” away to all-powerful corporations and the unelected lobbyists who represent them? Are you so blinded by fears of socialism that you are unable to see the bigger picture? Countries such as Canada and the UK are anything but oppressive Communist regimes. At least in those countries, millions of people don’t live with the constant burden of worry that they’re one illness away from financial ruin.

I don’t expect you to listen to me and I’m sure that you’ll throw everything I’ve said back at me, and seek to disprove what I’ve said with a bunch of links, articles, etc. However, these are just my opinions and I base my opinions from having lived in both Europe and the United States, and having experienced healthcare in 4 different countries. Yes, there are waiting lists in countries with socialized healthcare, but I can honestly say that I’ve never had a bad experience in any of these countries and actually, it’s here in the US where I’ve struggled to find a good doctor and I’ve had to fight with insurance companies to get them to pay. As someone else on this forum quite rightly pointed out, many of the people on waiting lists for treatment would probably have no treatment at all in the US, because they wouldn't be able to afford it, either due to being uninsured or underinsured (of course, that is their fault, right?). When people tell me how horrible the Canadian and British systems are, it simply doesn't wash as I have first-hand experience of socialized medicine. Regardless of waiting lists, I recall only having to pay the equivalent of $10 for ANY prescription drug and I had the choice of going to ANY doctor that I felt like seeing.

As Americans, you’re already paying more for healthcare than any other nation on earth, and for what? Would you rather pay more tax for a semi-socialized system that assures a safety net for those who need it, or would you rather continue to be financially fleeced by greedy insurance companies, hospitals and pharmaceutical corporations, only interested in $$$$$$$ as opposed to your health? Answers on a postcard.

Before you accuse me of being anti-capitalism, or a Communist, bear in mind that I am neither of those things. I am all in favor of the free market, but not when it comes to SERVICES - something the private sector should not be entrusted with. If the private sector were entrusted with all services (police, schools, fire, etc), you'd have a situation where the wealthy would live in luxury, having the best police force, 1 fire department per 10 houses and magnificent private schools, while the rest of the country would be degraded to total and utter third world chaos and anarchy. There is certainly a happy mediumm between having quality public services (schools, hospitals, transportation, police) and a thriving free market economy. Just take a look at the Scandinavian countries, if you want evidence of that (many boast the highest GDP in the world, BTW).

I just can't seem to grasp the concept of how any form of socialized healthcare amounts to somehow, losing one's freedom? If anything, I would say the oppositel i.e. that you'd have more freedom....freedom from the worry of "what if I get sick, how will I pay???". You'd also be taking power AWAY from the insurance/pharmaceuticals and the unelected lobbyists whose pockets they line. And if you don't like the "public" system, you'd still be "free" to take out your own health insurance.

America does have fantastic healthcare, IF you can afford it. The world's best doctors and surgeons flock here, because the money is there. I can honestly say that if I were rich, I'd choose to come to the USA for treatment, but if I were poor (or even middle class), I think I'd rather be poor and sick just about anywhere else in the developed world (sorry).

Last edited by Livinginabox; 09-24-2007 at 10:15 PM..

 
Old 09-26-2007, 01:14 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in Flyover country
531 posts, read 1,740,012 times
Reputation: 180
You have made some excellent points. I don't know why so many people link socialized healthcare with communism-it doesn't make sense to me. (When I think of communism-I think of pre -1990 Russia). And yes, I believe everyone has the right to health care. And I certainly am no Communist.
 
Old 09-26-2007, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,594,003 times
Reputation: 24858
Livinginabox - Very, very well said. I have been trying to make the same points but have not been as eloquent. Thank You
 
Old 09-26-2007, 07:11 AM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,287 posts, read 54,100,737 times
Reputation: 40586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livinginabox View Post
I am attempting to understand why people in the US are so opposed to any form of socialized healthcare.

Because as they drive to the airport in a car made to government imposed standards that have forced manufaturers to improve their products, on a government funded highway, to get on an airplane made safer by government standards that will fly to their destination using a government funded traffic control system and navigation aids, and then at their destination drive to a government funded park on another government funded road, they are smug in their belief that they have fought the good fight in keeping government out of their lives.
 
Old 09-26-2007, 07:16 AM
 
17,290 posts, read 29,317,459 times
Reputation: 8690
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
Because as they drive to the airport in a car made to government imposed standards that have forced manufaturers to improve their products, on a government funded highway, to get on an airplane made safer by government standards that will fly to their destination using a government funded traffic control system and navigation aids, and then at their destination drive to a government funded park on another government funded road, they are smug in their belief that they have fought the good fight in keeping government out of their lives.

Excellent, but let's take it further!


They live in a house paid for by a mortgage secured by a bank that is insured by the FDIC. On top of that, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, etc. are all integral in financing the "secondary mortgage market" so that their private bank would GIVE THEM a loan in the first place.

They have college educations from institutions that are heavily subsidized by the government, and subsidized student loans from the government that allowed them to get the education to get the job that got them the money to buy the house in the first place.

When someone robs their house, they'll call the police, and think nothing of the fact that its taxpayer money subsidizing their safety.
 
Old 09-26-2007, 07:32 AM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,287 posts, read 54,100,737 times
Reputation: 40586
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Excellent, but let's take it further!


Oh, it could go on without end, let's not forget those who live in fear of socialized anything yet calmly send their children off to schools funded by taxpayers, whether they have children or not.

I think we should be asking: If Congress truly works for the people, why do the employees have better benefits than the employers?

I encourage all to send an E-mail to your Senators and Representative and ask that question.
 
Old 09-26-2007, 07:37 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,397,594 times
Reputation: 4013
The most evident way to explain these knee-jerk references to Karl Marx in response to any suggestion at all re social programs is paranoia. It should be apparent to just about anyone that while we as a society are awash in low-utility consumer goods, in an era where bridges fall down, you can't trust the food supply, and people can't get access to health care, it's public goods that we are running critically short on. Other countries are way ahead of us on this score, and their citizens are reaping the benefits of it. But these days, if you had an old-fashioned barn-raising to do at your place, all you'd get out of your right-wing neighbors would be disparaging comments over the evils of Stalin and Lenin...
 
Old 09-26-2007, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,160,627 times
Reputation: 4937
All people have access to health care - rich or poor. Insured and un-insured.
 
Old 09-26-2007, 07:46 AM
 
9,876 posts, read 10,784,558 times
Reputation: 3108
[quote=Livinginabox;1573232]I am attempting to understand why people in the US are so opposed to any form of socialized healthcare.

You have public schools, police forces, fire departments, highway agencies, courts and other forms of infrastructure, so what “gives” when it comes to healthcare? I have always believed that hospitals, schools, police stations and courts are “public” institutions, there for the good of every citizen. I have never even remotely thought that any of these services could be operated on a for-profit basis, by the private sector.

QUOTE]

Simply because many people dont believe that it is the governments responsibility, and history and the evidence show that the private sector by far does a much better job at delivering goods and services (understatement), not to mention the little thing called the constitution, of course some believe that (general welfare) is the umbrella clause that provides the left with the desire for government to do everything. Many of those services you listed can and are operated by private companys at a much more cost effective and efficient manner! Now remember liberals! just because we dont think the government should run something, doesnt mean that we may or may not believe that it is needed or required.
 
Old 09-26-2007, 07:46 AM
 
7,381 posts, read 7,671,549 times
Reputation: 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
All people have access to health care - rich or poor. Insured and un-insured.
No need Greatday, they know this but they'll never admit it. It blows their argument.
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