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If you are claiming that the Bush tax-cuts were designed to prevent the economy from going into "free fall" you don't know anything about the Bush tax-cuts.
Those tax-cuts were founded in 1999 during Bush's campaign as a way to return the surplus to the people. Then when the recession hit, the same tax-cuts were sold as stimulus. Isn't that nice? Whatever the problem tax-cuts were the solution.
The tax-cuts did nothing but increase the deficits; defund the government and create more inequality while not stimulating the economy.
So it's not clear that the Bush tax cuts had that much impact on the deficits. What clearly did was increased spending, which by most measures grew at a fast pace during the Bush years.
Anyway, I would agree with your (presumed) view that the deficits were pretty bad under Bush and he deserves blame for that. Would you agree with me that the deficits under Obama, about 3 times those of Bush, are even more disastrous and that Obama deserves even more blame?
Is this a new way of talking about redistributing the wealth so the very poor can stand on the same ground that the wealth stand on? It sure sounds like it.
Wow ... you're paying attention! Yes that is what it sounds like ... oooh ... redistribution of wealth. Such a scary thing. However, the realty is, we've seen a system that has been redistributing wealth from the bottom 99% to the top 1% for a long time, so it's not such a dirty proposition to reverse that trend, is it?
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Originally Posted by roysoldboy
Do you not understand who pays for jobs for that lower end, indeed if they are willing to work? It is pretty obvious that those wealthy people you "hate" don't run small businesses but once we get started toward all that redistribution of wealth to keep those people from getting that OBSCENELY UNFAIR portion of the overall wealth how long will it be before we have to drop down to this "rich" small business people?
First off, I don't hate rich people. I love them, and my wish would be for everyone to be rich. Of course, that's extremely unrealistic, but a good goal, nonetheless.
The fact is, life is like a game of monopoly. It's a fun game, but eventually, one person manages to accumulate all of the hotels and property and money, and when that happens, the game is over. So, at that point, we have two choices .. either redistribute the wealth and restart the game, or call it quits.
I happened to catch this from Mark Levin the other day, found it striking, and decided to look it up on line when I got home. Mark Levin
Economist Mark J Perry found this interesting factoid. According to 2009 IRS data, the 400 top taxpayers in 2009 shelled out $16.1 billion, while the bottom 50% of taxpayers totaled $19.5 billion in taxes, or less than 25% more.
Something to cite next time someone claims that the rich don't pay their fair share in taxes.
Note also how inherently unstable this structure is. What happens if just a few of those 400 decide to take their money and go to some small offshore tax haven? Wouldn't it be more stable to have a much more broad-based structure instead of trying to drain so much dough from such a tiny group?
You cannot "prove" whether or not the rich pay their fair share of taxes by simply referencing absolute dollar figures. You need to look at it as a percentage of their income.
As an extreme example, if the richest rich paid $16.1 billion in taxes but collectively earned 1 trillion...then did they really pay their "fair share" in comparison to an upper middle class wage earner taxed over 25%?
You are correct in one thing: it is inherently unstable in many ways. That's what happens when the economic inequality in this country becomes extraordinarily lopsided. What else do you expect to happen? While some economic inequality is perfectly normal and healthy, too much becomes a problem for society.
Wow ... you're paying attention! Yes that is what it sounds like ... oooh ... redistribution of wealth. Such a scary thing. However, the realty is, we've seen a system that has been redistributing wealth from the bottom 99% to the top 1% for a long time, so it's not such a dirty proposition to reverse that trend, is it?
And how are you going to go about transferring that wealth from their personal residence, other real estate, closely held stock, publicly traded stock, state and local government bonds, federal bonds, corporate and foreign bonds, bond funds, diversified mutual funds, cash value life insurance policies, noncorporate business assets, farm assets, private equity and hedge funds, other limited partnerships and retirement assets? After all that's their "wealth" that you're speaking about you'd like to redistribute.
Please tell us how you plan on doing that without taking a Mao-like Great Leap Forward or a Stalin-like Great Purge?
And how are you going to go about transferring that wealth from their personal residence, other real estate, closely held stock, publicly traded stock, state and local government bonds, federal bonds, corporate and foreign bonds, bond funds, diversified mutual funds, cash value life insurance policies, noncorporate business assets, farm assets, private equity and hedge funds, other limited partnerships and retirement assets? After all that's their "wealth" that you're speaking about you'd like to redistribute.
Please tell us how you plan on doing that without taking a Mao-like Great Leap Forward or a Stalin-like Great Purge?
Exactly how the 1% has been transferring wealthy away from the 99%. Taxation. Time to go back to a higher marginal tax that taxes ALL forms of income at the same rate.
If that isn't enuf to balance the budget and start paying down the debt you'll need to tax wealthy, start with financial wealthy held here or off shore. Maybe a 5% or 10% tax on financial wealthy each year on millionaires until the debt is paid off.
Exactly how the 1% has been transferring wealthy away from the 99%. Taxation. Time to go back to a higher marginal tax that taxes ALL forms of income at the same rate.
If that isn't enuf to balance the budget and start paying down the debt you'll need to tax wealthy, start with financial wealthy held here or off shore. Maybe a 5% or 10% tax on financial wealthy each year on millionaires until the debt is paid off.
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Based on AGI, the number of high-income returns for 2009 measured in current-year dollars was 73.5 times as large as for 1977, whereas, measured in 1976 constant dollars, the number of returns for 2009 was only 8.1 times the number for 1977.
What that means is given the chance at increased income with higher and higher inflation the lower income people turned their money hand-over-fist to the wealthy and as you can see with threads like this they then turned around and complain because they turned their money hand-over-fist to the wealthy.
The wealthy haven't gotten wealthy because they're stealing people's money the wealthy have gotten that way because the ignorant populace has been finding as many ways as possible to swipe, mail, email, trade, eat, buy etc the money they earn into the wealthy's hands as fast as they can.
The people screaming about taxes should be higher are simply doing the same ignorant things they've always done, subsidizing stupidity. They're not interested in campaigning for greater economic IQs they'd rather just keep the ignorant ignorant and continue to pay for them to be that way.
It's really funny though because the tax-the-rich folks don't see it that way. They see it totally the opposite of the way it actually is and that government allowed those people to get rich through tax policy and not through the actual way that government has been an abject failure at the education system and teaching people things finance.
Yet when our consume Crap, and Crap out trash for a landfill economy begins to falter becuz ppl "wise up" you'll be the first in line to rant about how bad the "plastic trash stream economy" is doing and saying "where's the jobs". Sure we have an economy based on Crap, no denying that. Personally, I don't take part in it very much, I do well in a bartering/garage sale economy.
So, instead of waving your arms fix everything. What do we do to get of an economy based on crude oil by-products? Is that drill baby drill policy moving us away from an oil based economy?
The part YOU miss is that that debt belongs to the wealthy, it is the product of the system THEY created. It is the direct result of their wars, their greed, their scams, their bailouts, their raids on the treasury and the fed. They raided the FDIC (is that the S&L one?) during the saving and loan heist in the 1980's. Silverado anyone? Where did our tax dollars go then? The pension fund looting and dumping responsibility on the taxpayers, where'd our tax dollars go?
With this latest round of bailouts and give aways, where did the money go? Not the money the taxpayers infused into the banks, the "missing money" that caused the collapse? Where did this money go that needed to bw replaced?
Where'd those pallets of hundred dollar bills end up once they got to Iraq?
Where did that national debt money end up? Follow the money, it isn't in the lower 50%'s hands, they don't have anything, they mostly have a negative net worth.
If we're going to repay that national debt the ppl holding that money are going to have to pony up. They might not be the thief per say, but for the rest of America RECEIVING STOLEN PROPERTY is still against the law.
What that means is given the chance at increased income with higher and higher inflation the lower income people turned their money hand-over-fist to the wealthy and as you can see with threads like this they then turned around and complain because they turned their money hand-over-fist to the wealthy.
The wealthy haven't gotten wealthy because they're stealing people's money the wealthy have gotten that way because the ignorant populace has been finding as many ways as possible to swipe, mail, email, trade, eat, buy etc the money they earn into the wealthy's hands as fast as they can.
The people screaming about taxes should be higher are simply doing the same ignorant things they've always done, subsidizing stupidity. They're not interested in campaigning for greater economic IQs they'd rather just keep the ignorant ignorant and continue to pay for them to be that way.
It's really funny though because the tax-the-rich folks don't see it that way. They see it totally the opposite of the way it actually is and that government allowed those people to get rich through tax policy and not through the actual way that government has been an abject failure at the education system and teaching people things finance.
Oooh the fear mongering is utterly asstounding.. No seriously, say that again so I can laugh at you even more.
Whose Right to Water?
Corporate water giants seek to privatize this most basic of all natural resources. Consumers and communities are fighting back.
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The collapse of a public authority may drive the privatization process, but conditions placed on water loans by lenders like the World Bank have also played a key role. The Bank used to help countries build public water utilities, but, in a recent three-year period, 60% of Bank loans for water infrastructure carried conditions related to privatization. To date, most privatizations have occurred in Africa, Asia, and Latin America, but all of the water giants are now targeting Europe and the United States as priority areas for expansion.
Again, corporations are moving to control all natural resources, even those necessary for life.
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