the controversial diversity subject (drug, health care, racism, Brown)

[compelled to reply]

Well...I felt compelled to reply to this (I am a former member who self requested a ban, mods, can we talk about this through the PM?)

Originally Posted by tallrick

So if you have a concentration of Spanish speaking people you have "diversity"? Why would anyone want to live where you can't communicate effectively with others, creating segregation?

Well, this country does remain without an official language (Although English is Florida's de jure language), and some people do want to submerge themselves in people that are, well, different from them. For many this is a mind expanding experience and good practice for an increasingly global job market.

Originally Posted by stpeteguy

If you want "diversity", moved to South St. Petersburg. You can speak spanish, ebonics and probably throw in a little asian for spice. Then after you get carjacked, beaten, shot and left for dead by gangbangers who view you as an easy target, maybe you'll understand why the rest of us view "diversity" as a 4 letter word.

South St. Pete is mostly poor too. Go to Port Richey and you can experience much of the same (maybe minus the ebonics and Spanish) and its over 90 percent white.

Originally Posted by backtofla

diverisity is not always a good thing. we have a very diverse subdivision by your explaination. we are about 1/2 spanish, 1/2 white, black or asian. for the most part, ppl arent too friendly. everyone is from somewhere else, mostly puerto-rico or ny/nj. what is great about this? i'm not sure.

plus, what about hearing spanish os so great anyhow? now it's all i hear and it's annoying.

but on the other hand, i am glad you like it.

This is very much the dynamic of Orlando and the way it was built. Take a bunch of people seeking "paradise" but end up discovering a crap-tastic service economy and a transient profile, and then make them sit on I-4 every afternoon, and you have an angry bunch, no matter where they came from. Why haven't you considered Seminole County? I mean, I moved from Orlando to an area that is a bit more diverse, but most of my neighbors are nice (Actually really, really nice), people kinda watch out for each other, and when you are out shopping people are approachable and easy to talk to. I certainly hear people speaking languages other than my own, but I have found down here people are bilingual and speak English to ME. If they speak English to ME, that's all that's important.

Originally Posted by movingtolou

Oh MY. I can't believe what I am reading, how ugly some of these words are! I am glad that you are exploring the world nicolepsy; clearly it is something that some people will never be comfortable doing...and that is their loss. You will be a richer, wiser person for learning about others...some people are just too scared to step out of their 'comfort zone', and when they carry that attitude with them, it's no wonder people respond to them in a bad way...

and a side note, I am a black woman, with white family members, South American family members, lived in other countries, and was exposed to a wealth of diversity. I have never been car-jacked, shot or attacked! People should not make comments based on their fears... but on fact...

I think is precisely what the OP wants. Well stated.

Originally Posted by stpeteguy

Well most people(myself included), had a very naive view of diversity when I moved to a diverse area. I had always believed the things I seen on TV about minorities being nice and just wanting to be treated equal and things like that. So I had always went out of my way to be extra nice to minorities and befriend them.
It was only after I discovered that roughly 90% of the ones I meet are rude and hateful especially to people like me(white guys), that I stopped trying. I'm not going to bend over backwards to be nice to people who hate me and think I owe them something. Yes, there are exceptions, but the reality is that most of the people of color I meet do not hold the same values, morals and beliefs that I do about society in general. And, as the previous poster pointed out, most violent crime is done by minorities. Those are the facts.
So why would I want to live in or raise my kids in an area where most of the people are minorities?? Let them stick to their side of town and I will stick to mine.

Well, I live in a "Diverse" area in southwestern Broward County down south. It's also mostly middle class, well maintained, and a generally nice place to live. Even school districts perform well. About 10 % of kids in the local school systems are getting free/reduced lunch, but a majority of the students are minorities. Give you a good scope of the socio-economic vs. race situation? The graduation rate/vs ratio of free/reduced lunch students is a good way to analyze an area. We have two high schools in my area that are arch rivals, one is over 70 percent White, the other is about 45 % making it "minority majority" and is quite diverse. Generally the minority school outperforms the white school. Interesting that the minority school has a more affluent student body too...the respective schools maintain an 90% graduation rate vs 88%, so it's close, but I think you are under the assumption that minorities are poor when you suggest they stick to "their side of town".

Oh, and living in an area where "most" of the people are minorities is not "diversity". Living in an area with a mix is diversity.

Originally Posted by tonynorie

Movingtolou, when I read that you identified yourself as a black woman and that you feel people should make comments "based not on their fears....but on fact," and considering the civil tone of your post, I felt compelled to write and ask your opinion on my feeling vis a vis the perception of the black community by some.

Consider these facts: Black people, who make up roughly 12 percent of the country's population, account for about half of the crime. That's a rate FOUR times higher than other races. Two of three black students drop out of high school before graduating. SEVENTY percent of black children are born out of wedlock - how does that bode for the future of those kids?!?

Listen, I WANT to live in a world where everybody interacts with everybody else without friction......but how am I supposed to find these qualities of the black community embraceable?

By the way, I have a huge admiration for some other races - including Asians who, by and large, excel in academics and business in this country and have a relatively low crime profile. In fact, I appreciate quality people of ANY race or background, including black people of integrity and principle.

Please take my post in the spirit it is intended......to ask you a question based on fact (the statistics can easily be found on various governmental sites) and without malice or hate........

Also consider these facts; nearly a third live below the poverty line, corporatized "gangsta rap" (what ever happened to HIP HOP) is giving our youth (including some White youth)some of the worst influences possible while some big-shot white guys at the record companies fill their pockets, and these people were in many cases totally separated from the rest of society until about 50 years ago. A perfect group to manipulate,and a perfect group to keep separated. We have basically been heading backwards as a whole in this country for the past 5 years in this respect, and now we are heading into a segregated society in the fascist sense.

Attention posters- if some of you maintain this attitude of most minorities being poor, rude, and the people who burglarized your house, than this quite simply will remain true, because youth in the poor minority communities will thrive on what they see, and if they see that whites kind of "expect" it out of them.

[compelled to reply]

Originally Posted by gypsychic

I agree. I have to admit, my feathers get ruffled when I read all these posts slamming "diversity." I am a 3rd generation Tampa born native, my grandparents came from Spain. I grew up with other Spaniards, Italians, Cubans, African Americans and many island cultures. Tampa is a great melting pot, it started out that way and it still is. I just cannot believe the small-mindedness of some of the posters on this forum.

We now live in Lakeland, and I am happy to see that there is FAR more diversity (NO, it is NOT a bad word!) here than I thought there would be. In fact, just last weekend Lakeland held a wonderful multicultural festival in the beautiful downtown Lake Mirror Park to celebrate all of our diversity! I was happy to see even many more Asians than I thought lived here, as well as various Hispanic, African and cowboy-sportin' southerners! And you know what? Everyone was having a great time, and was one of the most CIVIL and fun festivals we have ever attended.

I feel sorry for some of you, it must be miserable in your small little worlds.

Unfortunately it is true that "diversity" isn't always like this, and "diversity" is certainly being shoved down our throats way too much. This country and world has too many deep tensions and other issues for us to really live in that kind of world, but when its working, it's awesome. It works best when there aren't too many disparities between socio-economic classes in the communities of peoples of certain "races". I have seen it work wonderfully in parts of greater Tampa and parts of South Florida (chiefly suburban Broward County).

[compelled to reply]

Those two posts=ME! If you couldn't already tell.

[SaveMtns]

Originally Posted by tonynorie

...but how am I supposed to find these qualities of the black community embraceable?

I, personally, believe it's important to embrace those individuals (in any community) who have good qualities. It doesn't make sense to dismiss or pre-judge an ENTIRE race or "community" because of crime statistics.

Why choose to look at people just as whole groups? "All the white people", the "black community", "the Asians"...people are ALL different--all individuals. Good and bad exist within every group.

It all starts with how we act with other races/cultures on a one-on-one basis. Simply treating each other with respect AS WE WOULD LIKE TO BE TREATED, whether standing in line at the grocery store, at a public function, crossing the street - anywhere!

Try to see INDVIDUAL HUMAN BEINGS; to look them in the eye, smile, treat them respectfully without regard for their skin color.

[backtofla]

i did live in oviedo at one time. it was better than east orlando for sure. yessir.

[nicolepsy]

Originally Posted by Jammie

Not sure why this thread is taking the direction it is. Above are the words of the OP who had, by her own admission, been subjected to torment BECAUSE of being a minority race. Simply put~my question still is~Why do you want to put yourself through it? I read your answer, but your life will be filled with having to be cautious and always aware of your surroundings. You stated you will not be able to go out at night. Why do you want to live that way?

yes i was tormented for being white but i dont hate blacks because of it because i cant lump all blacks into the group of my tormenters. personally, i think alot of crime has to do with poverty and poor parenting and not just race. also, maybe because of my past bad experiences (or maybe it's just my personality type) i am cautious and always aware of my surroundings anyways, no matter where i go. i will be able to go out at nite of course. i was saying that i wouldnt purposely hang out in rough areas at nite though.

[movingtolou]

Attention posters- if some of you maintain this attitude of most minorities being poor, rude, and the people who burglarized your house, than this quite simply will remain true, because youth in the poor minority communities will thrive on what they see, and if they see that whites kind of "expect" it out of them.[/quote]

.....and a more true statement has never been uttered. I mentioned on another post of mine that I had a friend (also black) who was adopted at birth into a white family...she was never exposed to a very dynamic 'black' experience. By the time she got to college, people where telling her that she wasn't 'black enough'. People asked her why she 'talked white'... And by the time she was out of college she had a completely new persona. She was speaking in broken english, and doing thing that she thought proved her 'blackness'. Now this was an well-educated woman, from a good home...

can you imagine if she was just a kid, from a single parent home, trying to find her way and learn how to define herself? Though usually not poor, we see a similar effect on 'child-stars' all the time; too young to figure out who they are, without other people defining them(now add being poor to the mix)...Stereotypes sometimes play on peoples innermost desire to fit in...and belong...

Similarly, a (white) woman at my daughter's pre-school adopted an Asian child...we were having a conversation one day, and she mentioned to me how so many people come up to her and tell her how 'smart' her daughter is...and she's only 3! Now, that's not to say that her daughter can't be a smart child...but as we were standing on the playgroung talking about this, another parent came up to interject 'you know, I have to tell you...she is so smart' These messages are powerful.

The bottom line is that it is the job of any critical thinking adult to get to know people by who they are, not what you think they might be like.

[Bezzled]

.[/quote]

.....and a more true statement has never been uttered. I mentioned on another post of mine that I had a friend (also black) who was adopted at birth into a white family...she was never exposed to a very dynamic 'black' experience. By the time she got to college, people where telling her that she wasn't 'black enough'. People asked her why she 'talked white'... And by the time she was out of college she had a completely new persona. She was speaking in broken english, and doing thing that she thought proved her 'blackness'. Now this was an well-educated woman, from a good home...

.[/quote]

Black community is ridiculous. Look what Jesse Jackson said about Obama, he is acting to WHITE.

They are prejudice on themselves. Until they learn that talking wrong and being ghetto is not being BLACK. Then they will continue to hurt themselves, and not allow other professional blacks to make it in environment, that they are trying to better themselves. It's very sad.

[movingtolou]

...and until you learn that there is more to this issue, your myopic thinking will continue to have you thinking that the MAJORITY of blacks have a problem. Perhaps you should take a college-level Sociolgy or Anthropology class. Or maybe you are closed to the idea of learning new things. It is abundantly clear that you are simply not interested in learning anything, about anybody. And THAT is sad... (and maybe re-read Jesse Jackson's statements on Obama)

From CNN:

"There's an unfortunate misinterpretation," Jackson said. "The fact is, I endorse Barack without hesitation and support him today unequivocally."

Jackson also reportedly said on Tuesday that Obama needs to be bolder in his stances if he wants to make inroads in South Carolina. Obama trails rival Sen. Hillary Clinton in South Carolina by 18 points, according to a recent LA Times/Bloomberg poll.

When informed the newspaper intends to stand by its reporting of the quote, Jackson said, "I have not in any way engaged into the degrees of blackness debate." Jackson added he continues to support Obama, whom he called brilliant."

[tallrick]

In order to promote "diversity" they promote segregation. We have been increasingly segregated by economic status as the middle class has been eroding away. Notice how there are "poor areas" and "rich areas". Until this no longer exists, "diversity" is a dirty word.