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I hope you can comprehend the fact that even if you disagree with what a law enforcement officer is doing, committing a battery is not a good way to express your dissatisfaction.
I would admit only that for any other LEO to be permitted to perform such a search you would first be advised of your rights and informed you were being placed under arrest with your supposed crime being told to you.
TSA on the other hand is the complete abrogation of all of your rights under the guise of required security to make you safer. NOT! You are already well within the confines of a major airport, your checked luggage has already dissappeared on a conveyor to be PERHAPS (maybe not) X-rayed later on it's way to the plane. Both you and your luggage could have arrived at this point with a couple hundred pounds of explosives.
Were you an ACTUAL terrorist instead of just another sheeple trying to get from A to B you would already be well within a desired collateral damge zone of arriving at this point with your bomb armed and able to take literally hundreds of folks with you.
FAR TOO LATE in the process to enhance any security at all. You're being fed this crap to foster the fear and illusion they are actually being security pro-active when anyone with more than two functioning brain cells knows to actually enhance your travelling security they gotta screen you and your luggage well before the actual airport environs.
Imagine the cost to do this properly! Hence the bullcrap and rights abrogation as the preferred, cheaper and easier to perpetrate, avenue.
So a police officer chasing a bank robber should get a ticket for speeding.
A firefighter who uses an axe to cut through the roof of a burning house should be prosecuted for malicious destruction of personal property.
A detective who puts the cuffs on a suspect is guilty of kidnapping.
The ignorance around here is staggering.
And so is your deflection!
Non of these is an affront to the personal well being, or rights. Especially the handcuffs part where the presumed offender is firstly advised of rights placed under arrest and informed of crime. Done improperly he could even walk though guilty.
TSA are given far reaching intrusive abilities: without being duly appointed law officers, properly trained, no effective oversight, the suspcion of any crime being present, rights of the accused to face their accuser, rights of the offended clearly outlined in an arbitration of supposed abuse, sheesh the list just goes on and on that the kidnapper you've mentioned abouve has more recourse to rights than the poor schlep having no choice but to fly to an overnight meeting somewhere.
You've become a nation of whining wimps headed for complete dominance by one government agency or another, relying upon some high school drop-out to assure your fears are recognized and addressed, by a complete and willing abrogation of your personal liberties granted by that much ballyhoo'd document your founding fathers placed such great importance upon.
Make sure you mentally record all the pro-mall cop folks on these threads just incase Romney wins. Watch how fast their opinion changes when an (R) instead of a (D) is delegating for DHS.
Kind of amazing how if a TSA agent gropes you it's considered fine and appropriate, but if you grope in the same way they consider it a crime of "violent battery". Makes you wonder why we're allowing TSA government agents to conduct "violent battery" against our own citizens without any probable cause for concern.
It's either "violent battery" or not....which is it ? It can't be both depending on who's doing it.
The big difference is that the TSA has to ask permission to "grope" you and if you refuse then you have a choice of not to fly. If you decide to grope someone without their permission, then you can be charged with assult and battery. The woman should be charged and given community service.
The big difference is that the TSA has to ask permission to "grope" you and if you refuse then you have a choice of not to fly. If you decide to grope someone without their permission, then you can be charged with assult and battery. The woman should be charged and given community service.
trlhiker, I understand your point perfectly, and perhaps my point is far to nuanced to matter, but I'll try to restate it better.
Why is the TSA given permission (for security purposes) to commit a "violent battery" against anyone who flys without recourse....other than if you decide to drive everywhere and never fly again. I can't imagine any government thinking it's reasonable to commit a "violent battery" against any citizen without probable cause. My point is why is it called security when they do it....but if you do it, they make it sound like you put the TSA officer into a chokehold and tried to strangle him/her violently.
It just seems that calling it "security" on one side and yet "violent battery" on the other side makes me wonder what we're really allowing them to do to us in the name of security. I guess if the passenger was accused of "groping" the TSA agent I'd find less fault with this situation since that is what she did. Groping has a totally different meaning to me than a "violent battery" does.
So a police officer chasing a bank robber should get a ticket for speeding.
A firefighter who uses an axe to cut through the roof of a burning house should be prosecuted for malicious destruction of personal property.
A detective who puts the cuffs on a suspect is guilty of kidnapping.
The ignorance around here is staggering.
Yes, your ignorance is staggering. Law enforcement responding to a crime, conducting searches with probable cause or a search warrant, and fire fighters responding to a life threatening emergency is completely different from glorified mall cops with virtually no law enforcement training conducting sexual assault body pat downs without probable cause nor a search warrant nor reading the person their Miranda Rights is wrong.
So a police officer chasing a bank robber should get a ticket for speeding.
A firefighter who uses an axe to cut through the roof of a burning house should be prosecuted for malicious destruction of personal property.
A detective who puts the cuffs on a suspect is guilty of kidnapping.
The ignorance around here is staggering.
You're attempting to compare two totally different situations. In your scenarios you mentioned, you're defending actions done once a crime or life threatening event has already happened and law enforcement personnel is responding to that known event. What we're questioning is why if a TSA agent gropes you without probable cause it's called "security" and deemed appropriate, but if you do the exact same thing to them it's called a "violent battery". As I stated in a previous post, doesn't it make you wonder why TSA is allowed to commit violent battery without any probable cause, but if you do the same thing you're charged with a rather vicious sounding crime.
I certainly understand why we need airport security, but I'm just wondering why we're permitting them in the name of security to commit "violent battery" against us without any probable cause. Perhaps I'm attempting to split to fine a line here....but when our wives and kids feel violated by what the TSA themselves are calling a violent battery....maybe we're going a bit to far.
Using your scenarios above, if a cop thought there "might" be a bank being robbed, but had absolutey no evidence that was the case, they could speed around town with lights and sirens chasing random cars who just "might" be a bank robber....and maybe slap the cuffs on you since you were near a bank at the time....are you good with that ? How about if the fireman showed up at your home and started chopping holes in your roof with no evidence of fire....would you be ok with that too ?
Sounds like you don't really value your civil rights much...and I guess it's your "right" to give up your rights....but some of us would prefer to retain some of ours and not be treated as criminals when we have not given any indication or presented any probable cause that we've committed any crime.
Last edited by jasper1372; 06-19-2012 at 01:10 PM..
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