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Old 06-24-2012, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Flippin AR
5,513 posts, read 5,240,443 times
Reputation: 6243

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rikoshaprl View Post
Bid to kill EPA coal plant regulations thwarted in Senate - The Hill's E2-Wire

The idea of shutting coal plants because they pollute too much is assinine. We will have a massive shortage of electricity and tremendous increase in electric costs. Why not build new natural gas plants or nuclear plants first? Or why not build better scrubbers for the coal? Does Obama want us back in the stone age without electricity?
It takes time to build new natural gas plants (and these are pretty limited in the levels of power they can generate), and with our current "technophobe public approval process" for nuclear power plants we can't even begin that process. Deregulation of the power industry, just like deregulation of Ma Bell, has caused ever-increasing costs and total lack of reliability, so don't expect any improvement on those levels no matter how many coal plants continue burning. As for scrubbers, coal is a very dirty-burning fuel and you can choose to put the millions of tons of largely toxic waste products in either the air, the land, or the water. Improving scrubbers simply means that you are transferring more filth from the air to a more solid form--but the more you concentrate it, the more toxic it is.

As to Obama wanting us back in the Stone Age, I think deep down that is exactly what he'd like to see, and what his father wanted to see before him. But first and foremost he is a politician-for-hire, and whatever he does on a policy level is a result of a club of Big Business CEOs getting together and further padding their own pockets while destroying what's left of the Middle Class. There is ALWAYS a financial motive when something changes on a national level. And in my lifetime, it ALWAYS hurts the average citizen who goes to work and pays taxes.
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Old 06-24-2012, 01:05 PM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,745,228 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
I think you are referring to fracking not cracking
Thanks for correcting the typo.

Quote:
There is no more evidence of fracking polluting aquifers... Fracking takes place 5 - 15 thousand feet below the earth's surface. Aquifers used for drinking water are several hundred to a couple thousand feet.
Have we forgotton Haliburton already??

Quote:
In 2005, the Bush/ Cheney Energy Bill exempted natural gas drilling from the Safe Drinking Water Act. It exempts companies from disclosing the chemicals used during hydraulic fracturing. Essentially, the provision took the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) off the job. It is now commonly referred to as the Halliburton Loophole.
Quote:
The average well is up to 8,000 feet deep. The depth of drinking water aquifers is about 1,000 feet. The problems typically stem from poor cement well casings that leak natural gas as well as fracking fluid into water wells.
Some light reading:

http://gaslandthemovie.com/
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Old 06-24-2012, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,076 posts, read 20,528,322 times
Reputation: 7807
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
The question Skillit is this worth it to reduce the mercury deposition rate in the US from 1% to 10% and raise IQ rates a whopping 2/1000 of point assuming EPA estimates are accurate.

You tell me. How much is the health of your kids and grandkids worth to you?
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Old 06-24-2012, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Cape Coral
5,503 posts, read 7,332,984 times
Reputation: 2250
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
You tell me. How much is the health of your kids and grandkids worth to you?
So funny from a liberal. Do you care how much debt you kids and grand kids have?
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Old 06-24-2012, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Cape Coral
5,503 posts, read 7,332,984 times
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"The average well is up to 8,000 feet deep. The depth of drinking water aquifers is about 1,000 feet. The problems typically stem from poor cement well casings that leak natural gas as well as fracking fluid into water wells."

The well casings need to be solid for any oil/gas well.(I don't think you are saying we should stop all drilling.) That has nothing to do with the fracking process which occurs thousands of feet below the aquifer.
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Old 06-24-2012, 05:32 PM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,745,228 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
That has nothing to do with the fracking process which occurs thousands of feet below the aquifer.

Please don't turn this into physics lesson. The fracking process will always go up because thats the direction of least resistance. And you are correct, I have no issue against drilling itself. LNG is not the problem as it will evaporate as soon as it hits air. The chemicals they use is the problem and the problem is where its being done. We don't need a future Love Canal.
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Cape Coral
5,503 posts, read 7,332,984 times
Reputation: 2250
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilVA View Post
Please don't turn this into physics lesson. The fracking process will always go up because thats the direction of least resistance. And you are correct, I have no issue against drilling itself. LNG is not the problem as it will evaporate as soon as it hits air. The chemicals they use is the problem and the problem is where its being done. We don't need a future Love Canal.
Most of the liquid chemicals they use in fracking is recovered. However there is a new technique where ALL of the fracking "liquid" is recovered. They use a gel instead of liquid.
"Instead of water, GASFRAC relies on a thick propane gel. Then, like water, the propane gel is pumped deep into shale formations, carrying small sand particles that are forced into cracks to hold them open so the gas can flow out. But unlike water, the gel reverts to vapor before returning to the surface – along with the natural gas."
GASFRAC Takes the Water out of Fracking | ChEnected | Engineers talk chemicals, bio, safety, energy, sustainability.
Technology can be our friend.
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Old 06-24-2012, 08:13 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,045,587 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHartphotog View Post
It takes time to build new natural gas plants ..........
And by the time they get built gas prices will be through the roof. The natural gas boom is is great sitution because it puts pressure on the coal market but if you eliminate coal ..........
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Old 06-24-2012, 08:16 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,045,587 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
You tell me. How much is the health of your kids and grandkids worth to you?
If we're going to raise their IQ's by 2/1000 of point and they won't be able to feed themselves the choice is a no brainer.
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Old 06-24-2012, 08:21 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,045,587 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilVA View Post
The chemicals they use is the problem and the problem is where its being done.
The largest problem with the "chemicals" in the fracking process is there are saline or they have a lot of salt. At most it's short term issue.
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