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Puerto Rican is a term to indicate where someone was born, a person's heritage, etc - not citizenship. So legally speaking, they weren't even Puerto Ricans to begin with but rather Americans. Nevertheless, the fact that someone was 'Puerto Rican' would obviously be important if Puerto Rico ever became its own independent country. In that situation, it is almost certain that anyone born in Puerto Rico would at that point be offered new Puerto Rican citizenship - be they U.S. citizens at that point or a citizen of another country. In any event, all of this citizenship discussion is really getting a bit off topic considering this thread is supposed to be about potential statehood, not independence. And I'd really like to see comments from those who favor statehood. It's been rather interesting that so far in this thread there have been several comments supporting independence but virtually none in support of statehood. However, although every referendum held thus far has resulted in maintaining commonwealth status, when comparing the number of people who voted for statehood versus those who voted for independence, MANY more voted for statehood. For example, in the latest 1998 referendum, 728,200 voted statehood vs. only 39,800 for independence. In light of that, I think it would be helpful for everyone interested in this topic to read some comments from those who are pro-statehood.
I can see one huge reason for Puerto Rico to not want statehood--------such a move will likely cause the death of the Spanish language within 2 generations there.
Especially with the hardening anti illegal immigrant sentiment here on the Mainland--------most illegals are 'Hispanic' so connect the dots.
I can see one huge reason for Puerto Rico to not want statehood--------such a move will likely cause the death of the Spanish language within 2 generations there.
Sorry, but I would have to strongly disagree with that. There are millions of Spanish speakers in the mainland U.S. who have been here 2 generations (or longer) and even here, completely surrounded by English, they are still speaking Spanish. Indeed, I personally know many Hispanics who speak English at work because they need to but still speak Spanish at home and with friends. Furthermore, not only do they speak both fluent English and Spanish but so do their parents, so do their children, and for the ones who are old enough, so do their grand-children. That's already 4 generations and even that is only the ones who's family immigrated to the U.S. via their parents. There are obviously plenty more families who have been here since their grand-parents or further back who still speak fluent Spanish - there are plenty of them in California and Texas. In fact, I can't think of a single Hispanic family I have ever known where they stopped knowing Spanish within 2 generations. And again, that's here in the mainland U.S. where the predominant language has always been English and that's what they are surrounded by every day. So, if there are millions of Spanish speakers here in the mainland who still speak it after 2 or more generations, to think that in Puerto Rico, where the predominant language has always been Spanish, they would see "the death of the Spanish language within 2 generations" just because they became a state is completely unrealistic.
and,they want us to pay them for it via taxes and grants and everything that goes with being a U.S. territory, i.e, they get MAJOR tax breaks..
If you cut off the funding for P.R., they'd definitely vote for statehood. But, if your a Puerto Rican Native, why buy the cow when you get the milk for free..?! why vote for statehood? then you'll just have to pay federal taxes!
Puerto Rico gets a free ride, its no wonder they want to stay independent..
as an American tax payer, I say we DON'T put it to the Puerto Rican voters to decide, we should give them the ultimatum, pay federal taxes , even as an independent U.S territory like the rest of us, or become your own country.period. you either fish or cut bait..
They DO pay a "federal" tax, they just pay it to Puerto Rico...much like the U.S. territories like the U.S. Virgin Islands...they have a tax that is based on the IRS guidelines, the money just stays in the islands...Of course, there is a difference in that the USVI are considered a territory and PR is a commonwealth, nonetheless...they do pay a tax equal to yours or mine on the mainland - this from infoplease.com
"Under the Commonwealth formula, residents of Puerto Rico lack voting representation in Congress and do not participate in presidential elections. As U.S. citizens, Puerto Ricans are subject to military service and most federal laws. Residents of the Commonwealth pay no federal income tax on locally generated earnings, but Puerto Rican government income-tax rates are set at a level that closely parallels federal-plus-state levies on the mainland".
So they pay taxes but they have no vote, are subject to federal laws, and are subject to military service. What a bargain. I'd say they are both fishing AND cutting bait.
and,they want us to pay them for it via taxes and grants and everything that goes with being a U.S. territory, i.e, they get MAJOR tax breaks..
If you cut off the funding for P.R., they'd definitely vote for statehood. But, if your a Puerto Rican Native, why buy the cow when you get the milk for free..?! why vote for statehood? then you'll just have to pay federal taxes!
Puerto Rico gets a free ride, its no wonder they want to stay independent..
as an American tax payer, I say we DON'T put it to the Puerto Rican voters to decide, we should give them the ultimatum, pay federal taxes , even as an independent U.S territory like the rest of us, or become your own country.period. you either fish or cut bait..
Obviously you haven't done your due diligence and fully read this thread before jumping in with that comment. The error of this belief has already been addressed earlier. For reference, here is a direct link to the specific post: //www.city-data.com/forum/u-s-t...ml#post1608960
Furthermore, as I have also explained elsewhere, the so-called "funding" Puerto Rico receives is LESS than what they would receive IF they were a state. So, this may be rather blunt but, your theory is seriously flawed and is based on erroneous beliefs and a lack of the facts. Next time... read first, post second.
Well first off you cant quite compare puerto rico to the us minland, puerto rico is fighting a deadly war on drugs which has been going on for decades, which the us government refuses to do much about. 2 if you compare puerto rico to the rest of latin america in terms of per capita incom at almost 20.000, i am hard pressed to find any latin american country that comes close to that so there maybe mexico comes close i cant find too many african nations that even comes close to that either. period
mythspell the usa is the richest country in the face of the earth? depends how you look at it right now the usa according the UN statistics on standerd of living the usa ranks 8 and its really falling compared to the 1950s and 1960s, the usa has 42 million people with outh proper access to health care benefits or any health care at all, poverty rates in the usa i9s is at 12 percent, which is high considering that the average american makes around 46 thouand per year. not to consider that blacks and hispanics live in higher poverty rates then its white counter parts, the education levels in the usa considerings its amount of money spent per capit is terrible education in amerca ranks from the middle to the bottom even poor african nations have higher education standerds then america that s according the un statistics.
Moderator cut: personal attack I was born raised and grew up in PR until I graduated high school in '98, parents are still living there (retired now), and pound for pound PR is a lagged microcosm of the CONUS. PR has a ridiculous cost of living, the population is terribly uneducated and there is an entrenched Bourgeoisie cluster class that ENSURES the average Puerto rican remains addicted to an immaterial and ephimerous sense of false national identity that does nothing for their self-fulfillment and bettering, but everything to keep the Bourgeoisie rich. Crime is ridiculous bad, not petty crime "my car got broken into again, what an inconvenience" bad, but "my friend got a bullet on the back of the head walking down from the gas station 'cause gangs from el caserio were chasing each other across the MALL parking lot" bad. Accepting it as the cost of business is one's prerrogative, but shouldn't be taken as normal. Schools are an afterthough, and income is stagnant compared to the poorest state in the US (now Louisiana). As it pertains to your comparison of a US territory to the many caribbean nations there is no point there to be made. Puerto Rico of today compared to say the Dominican Republic has nothing to do with the fabric of the people, but the fact that it IS a US territory, period. The major sources of employment have always been private american industries under tax free provisions (those are gone now) and an artificial state government whose coffers are padded by the US treasury, as the local tax collection, even at the alarming high rates of taxes compared to those in the CONUS, still fails to recoup enough revenue to clear the black line. That's PR in a nutshell, you can Moderator cut: nopeargue the US citizenship is an immaterial fact of life and not consequential to day to day living, but at the end of the day Puerto Ricans have two choices: 1)Do like me and emigrate and make our own life or 2) stay in the island and accept that bills of goods, good, bad or UGLY; whether one chooses to rationalize the conditions on that bill of goods is your problem, but it doesn't change the factual aspects of what I'm addressing here about PR.
Last edited by Sam I Am; 11-09-2007 at 06:56 AM..
Reason: insulting
Moderator cut: personal attack I was born raised and grew up in PR until I graduated high school in '98, parents are still living there (retired now), and pound for pound PR is a lagged microcosm of the CONUS. PR has a ridiculous cost of living, the population is terribly uneducated and there is an entrenched Bourgeoisie cluster class that ENSURES the average Puerto rican remains addicted to an immaterial and ephimerous sense of false national identity that does nothing for their self-fulfillment and bettering, but everything to keep the Bourgeoisie rich. Crime is ridiculous bad, not petty crime "my car got broken into again, what an inconvenience" bad, but "my friend got a bullet on the back of the head walking down from the gas station 'cause gangs from el caserio were chasing each other across the MALL parking lot" bad. Accepting it as the cost of business is one's prerrogative, but shouldn't be taken as normal. Schools are an afterthough, and income is stagnant compared to the poorest state in the US (now Louisiana). As it pertains to your comparison of a US territory to the many caribbean nations there is no point there to be made. Puerto Rico of today compared to say the Dominican Republic has nothing to do with the fabric of the people, but the fact that it IS a US territory, period. The major sources of employment have always been private american industries under tax free provisions (those are gone now) and an artificial state government whose coffers are padded by the US treasury, as the local tax collection, even at the alarming high rates of taxes compared to those in the CONUS, still fails to recoup enough revenue to clear the black line. That's PR in a nutshell, you can Moderator cut: nopeargue the US citizenship is an immaterial fact of life and not consequential to day to day living, but at the end of the day Puerto Ricans have two choices: 1)Do like me and emigrate and make our own life or 2) stay in the island and accept that bills of goods, good, bad or UGLY; whether one chooses to rationalize the conditions on that bill of goods is your problem, but it doesn't change the factual aspects of what I'm addressing here about PR.
I have read the posts on this thread. I'd be interested to know how you feel about statehood for PR. Is that what you want for the island? What are the specific advantages/benefits of statehood?
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