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It's a fabricated problem by the very people that admitted that their only goal was to make Obama a one term POTUS. Their base is too dumnbed down to understand that once all of the Affordable Healthcare Act goes into effect, it will be very popular, not to mention a lifesaver for people and kids that would not be insured otherwise. The GOP is foaming at the mouth and have easily managed to whip their base into a frenzy. Unbelievable!
Opt out if you don't want it and you most likely live in a red state that will opt out and if you don't live in a red state, you probably should, so move to one.
The right wing of the republican party did the same thing when Roosevelt passed Social Security. They did the same when Truman tried to pass Universal Health care. Once again when Johnson tried to pass universal health care. Totally shot down Clinton and have done everything in their power to shut down Obama. It's noteworthy that they never said a word when Reagan passed the health care for all, Via ER services and amnesty for all illegals.
The problem with Democrats is that they keep bringing knives to a political gunfight. Every time they think they can get a bipartisan effort to pass a bill the republicans double cross them and out maneuver them politically.
Please, Obama, bring all your political guns this time. Please! This fight is far from over and the republicans will never compromise on this issue. Never. History has shown that They never have and they never will.
This time we need to stand toe to toe and slug it out with them and defend what the SCOTUS has affirmed is totally legal..
Talk is cheap, especially on the internet where every conservative seems to be a self-made millionaire. Unfortunately in the real word, as my recent experience illustrates, very few individuals can walk the walk when there behind hits the gurney. My wife and I are not rich but we certainly do much better than the average American and it would be next to impossible for us to come up with the cost of my recent four day stay in the hospital at the cost negotiated by our health insurer. So your claim that you are ready and willing to come up at a moments notice the cost of one year of cancer treatment much less the $72,032.00 a four day stay in the hospital cost us just fails to fall on credible ears.
But that aside, it really doesn't matter whether or not you ask me to contribute to your care or not, the fact is that I have no choice but to contribute to your care because the "free market" requires that I do, right now, today because folks who claim they will just pay there medical bills, can't and don't especially when they actually get to see what a real like medical bill looks like.
The so-called government overreach (I've heard that the Supreme Court disagrees but I might have gotten my info from CNN or Fox) is in my opinion (and the former opinion of conservative Republicans) saving me my money when some pathetic individual righter who either didn't "need" or didn't want health insurance sees their personal Jesus calling them to his heavenly bosom and suddenly come to the realization that if they join Jesus they will miss the Tea Party Mixer and decide instead that the doctor needs to inject them with whatever needs to be injected - cha ching; cat scan whatever needs to be scanned- cha ching; and cut and dice whatever needs to be diced - cha ching, cha ching; so that their mortal ass doesn't miss that gala at the Cracker Barrell. Of course when they were telling the doctors to do whatever needed to be done to preserve their Individual Freedom™ they didn't notice the hospitals adding machines going off like a pin-ball machine. Which is unfortunate, because when the bill comes and the bank account doesn't match the new deficit they will either declare bankruptcy, drop off the grid and join some survivalist commune (I mean community), and the rest of us insured hard working folks will be the ones left holding the tab.
That's the real world, not the virtual one where talk is cheap and everyman can be a 1%.
I'm not, and never claimed to be, part of the "1%". what I am is a guy who is willing to be responsible for his family, and is incensed that he is being forced to also be at least partially responsible for a bunch of strangers.
The biggest fallacy in your argument (other than the silliness that you're contributing to MY healthcare) is that of the "free market". Government regulation, Medicaid, Medicare, frivolous lawsuits, mandated care and all sorts of social programs long ago destroyed the concept of the free market in health care, driving prices skyward at an alarming rate. That's what needs to be fixed, so that normal people like me, and perhaps like you, aren't treated as freaks when we suggest we're willing to be responsible for paying our own medical costs.
not going to have to pay more? how in the hell do you think they system will pay for itself?
if people only have to pay a certain amount of money 1 time a year, then how will the system pay for itself the rest of the time?
the only way to pay for obamacare, is to raise the taxes of the people, or to put the tax on health insurance companies and they then raise their rates to cover the tax. either way, we taxpayers that are already insured will have to pay for obamacare.
75% of this monstrous tax will be paid by citizens making under $250,000 per year. Obamacare will destroy our economy by raising costs and unemployment just to mention a few undesirable results.
People need to wake up and nderstand that this is a perfect example how Washington works against the American people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx
Obama never said it was a tax. The supreme Court said it was a tax.
True. While I understand some of the explanations put forth in support of the Chief Justice's ruling, I wonder whether it was a short term solution instead of a consideration of all possible long term consequences. One might say that Roberts' ruling was a stroke of genius and, perhaps, it was. However, a 5-4 vote is an indication that there was disagreement on the matter but with that as well it's not known what their motivations were in each case for disagreeing. Some of the dissenting justices could also have had political activism motives precicely because they *didn't* want this to go back to Congress and and the people.
However, if Obamacare allowed to stand, the door has been opened to all kinds of (punitive) taxation for things the government wants us to do or buy which we choose not to comply with. How long is it going to be before the government mandates that everyone buy a Volt, for example...or at the least a car that gives them a minimum of 45 mpg or face a "tax". That would destroy the auto industry as we know it. Oops...that's what the gubmint has in mind.
And how about forcing your compliance with Agenda 21 and sustainable housing?
If you liberals can't see it coming, you'll feel it when it hits you straight between the eyes. And then it will be too late for you to do anything about it.
Bottom line -- our freedoms are being eroded, masterfully, one by one. It's the old "frog in the pot" scenario. Except that some people are the frogs and don't notice it's getting hotter all the time. They may well throw another log on the fire by voting for Obama next time, just because it feels so "comfy" and "secure" to be taken care of, cradle to grave.
Folks who supposedly claim support for single payer
supported AHA a.k.a. Big Insurance/Big Pharm Bill
and now see this "tax" as
a step closer to an equitable single payer system
No matter how many "game metaphors" Moore uses,
I'd like to stick a football up his ass.
He thinks we are 65 years behind other nations.
This Act just added another 50.
I love that "Gun to the head" anology. What a load of crap. Spin much?
The "Gun" you refer to is the federal matching funds that would have been issued to the states if they went with the revised medicare program. The SC said he could not with hold federal funds for state medicare if the states didn't participate in the revised plan. Arn't you guys from the right AGAINST federal money anyway? So where does the gun come in?
You don't even know what programs you're trying to talk about and you want anyone to listen to your "enlightened" opinion on the matter?
In this case, the financial “inducement” Congress has chosen is much more than “relatively mild encourage- ment”—it is a gun to the head. Section 1396c of the Medi- caid Act provides that if a State’s Medicaid plan does not comply with the Act’s requirements, the Secretary of Health and Human Services may declare that “further payments will not be made to the State.” 42 U. S. C. §1396c. A State that opts out of the Affordable Care Act’s expansion in health care coverage thus stands to lose not merely “a relatively small percentage” of its existing Medi- caid funding, but all of it.
Last edited by BigJon3475; 06-29-2012 at 01:58 PM..
ER's HAVE to treat you, they can't just let you die. Who pays if you can't? CHARITY CARE! How do you think all those gang members that get shot up hourly pay for their ER visits? The tooth fairy?
The ER is required to stabilize a patient who is brought in with a life threatening emergency (if the hospital accepts federal funds). Period. The "charity" is on the part of the American taxpayer. The doctor will get paid (ER docs are usually employees of the hospital). The nurses and all the hospital staff will get paid. Is there some sort of "Gang members of America" fund that people contribute to? What charity do you think pays for this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD
There is this thing called CHARITY CARE! Look it up!
Maybe you could enlighten us since you conservatives keep bringing it up!
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger
I think you're starting to get it.
How's this - I want the government to mandate that every citizen in the country place an order with my business. Doesn't matter if you want or need the service I provide - you MUST do it. You're good with that, right? I take all major credit cards. Pony up.
Analogy fail. People will still have a choice of insurances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto
My question, is it right and proper for me have to through taxes and indirect payments to my insurers so that you have the right to use services that you are incapable of paying for?
If you don't want to purchase health insurance fine, then be prepared to show proof (a bond would be preferable) that you have the ability to pay full freight for health services in case of an medical emergency or catastrophic illness.
I agree. It should be a bond for at least $500K, b/c that is how much some illnesses can cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Keegan
I'll happily pay every dime of my own health care expense, and not ask you to ever contribute anything toward it, if you do the same. I'll make that same deal with every person in the country. In fact, I believe this is what many of us want. Unfortunately, this horrible, over reaching, confiscatory, law doesn't allow me to do so.
I take it you do not have insurance, which pools your risk with others, and invests your premiums to make money so it can pay your bills? I take it you will refuse Medicare when the time comes? Refuse the services of the county health department?
Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound
75% of this monstrous tax will be paid by citizens making under $250,000 per year. Obamacare will destroy our economy by raising costs and unemployment just to mention a few undesirable results.
That's hilarious since the RW is always complaining that $250K, even more is not "wealthy" and that supposedly 47% of people pay no income tax at all.
The only reason we are in the mess we are in is because of corporate greed and
their congressional ties. There were no winners in AHA - neither for the DEMS or the REPUBS.
Just one big loser - the American taxpayer.
now now, lets not forget the lazy who are getting money for doing nothing.
.....""Fascism is a system in which the government leaves nominal ownership of the means of production in the hands of private individuals but exercises control by means of regulatory legislation and reaps most of the profit by means of heavy taxation. In effect, fascism is simply a more subtle form of government ownership than is socialism."" Mussolini
sounds like the american liberals tax and over regulate
I do understand what fascism is , I spent my life defending you from it
Retired First Sergeant, US army..1982-2006
Mussolini did not write the dictionary.
Fascism: 1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) any ideology or movement inspired by Italian Fascism, such as German National Socialism; any right-wing nationalist ideology or movement with an authoritarian and hierarchical structure that is fundamentally opposed to democracy and liberalism. 2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) any ideology, movement, programme, tendency, etc., that may be characterized as right-wing, chauvinist, authoritarian, etc.
Yeah and I put in my time in Air Force intel and am proud of what I did. You righties have been throwing out this "anti-American" rhetoric for 35 years, and it's tiresome.
I take it you do not have insurance, which pools your risk with others, and invests your premiums to make money so it can pay your bills? I take it you will refuse Medicare when the time comes? Refuse the services of the county health department?
Of course I have insurance. While it may not be perfect, I've agreed the premium they asked for in exchange for the benefit they offer. What has this to do with me not wanting to pay for someone else's insurance?
Why would you expect me to refuse Medicare, when I have been forced to pay into it for years? That would be stupid.
I can't recall that I have ever used any services of my County Health Department, other than those that are mandated, such as septic system inspections & the like.
Folks who supposedly claim support for single payer
supported AHA a.k.a. Big Insurance/Big Pharm Bill
and now see this "tax" as
a step closer to an equitable single payer system
No matter how many "game metaphors" Moore uses,
I'd like to stick a football up his ass.
He thinks we are 65 years behind other nations.
This Act just added another 50.
The Medicaid expansion, however, accomplishes a shift in kind, not merely degree. The original program was de- signed to cover medical services for four particular cat- egories of the needy: the disabled, the blind, the elderly, and needy families with dependent children. See 42 U. S. C. §1396a(a)(10). Previous amendments to Medicaid eligibility merely altered and expanded the boundaries of these categories. Under the Affordable Care Act, Medicaid is transformed into a program to meet the health care needs of the entire nonelderly population with income below 133 percent of the poverty level. It is no longer a program to care for the neediest among us, but rather an element of a comprehensive national plan to provide universal health insurance coverage.14
Indeed, the manner in which the expansion is struc-
tured indicates that while Congress may have styled the expansion a mere alteration of existing Medicaid, it recog- nized it was enlisting the States in a new health care program. Congress created a separate funding provision to cover the costs of providing services to any person made newly eligible by the expansion. While Congress pays 50 to 83 percent of the costs of covering individuals cur- rently enrolled in Medicaid, §1396d(b), once the expansion is fully implemented Congress will pay 90 percent of the costs for newly eligible persons, §1396d(y)(1). The condi- tions on use of the different funds are also distinct. Con- gress mandated that newly eligible persons receive a level of coverage that is less comprehensive than the traditional Medicaid benefit package. §1396a(k)(1); see Brief for United States 9.
As we have explained, “[t]hough Congress’ power to legislate under the spending power is broad, it does not include surprising participating States with postac- ceptance or ‘retroactive’ conditions.”
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