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What's the difference what it's called. Tax, penalty, surcharge, fee, excise, fine. It all amounts to the same thing. More money taken out of peoples pockets and sent to the government to spread the wealth.
Actually, I would agree with you. However, for legal rulings the devil is in the details. When the govt basically owns it all this is what you get.
the real dirty lie is that the really poor people may not even be covered by this bill!
Because the court has stated that the feds cannot punish states that dont impliment the Medicaid part, some states will opt out.
Right now some republican controlled states are saying they wont. But some liberal states that are in dire financial circumstances may not be able to afford to.
the law states that if you are 133% of poverty level or below you go into medicaid. Not the exchanges.
those people living in states that dont do the medicaid part, will simply remain without healthcare.
These are the people Obama said he wanted to help. He has really done nothing for them while at the same time driving up the cost of healthcare for middle America.
Yea us we have an idiot in charge.
Not covering poor ppl is something those GOP governors will have to weigh, for some it might cost them. Obama did try to help those ppl, it was the court that took that away, not Obama. It something that will need to be fixed.
Actually, I would agree with you. However, for legal rulings the devil is in the details. When the govt basically owns it all this is what you get.
You're right the devil is in the detail. Roberts is the only justice that called the penalty a tax. The dissenting opinion did not call it a tax. Not even Mittens is calling it a tax now.
Pelosi almost said tax in an interview but caught herself
And if you don't believe the written account, there is a video there to watch and see for yourself.
Pelosi almost calls health law penalty a tax - POLITICO.com
"It's a penalty that comes under the Tax Code," Pelosi said on NBC's "Meet The Press" as host David Gregory pressed her to say whether she agreed with the Supreme Court, which deemed the law constitutional because the fee used to enforce the individual mandate amounts to a tax, or with President Barack Obama, who has maintained the fee is not a tax.
"It's a ta—; it’s a penalty for free riders," Pelosi said, nearly uttering the dreaded T-word before cutting herself off.
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Penalty under Tax code....it's regarding "tax matters". Guess they can also add "failure to buy something mandated by the Federal Government" to that list.
Not covering poor ppl is something those GOP governors will have to weigh, for some it might cost them. Obama did try to help those ppl, it was the court that took that away, not Obama. It something that will need to be fixed.
According to Louisiana Gov. Jindal on Sunday's Meet the Press:
Quote:
We have two critical decisions. do we set up exchanges and expand Medicaid? We're not doing either . Makes more sense to elect Mitt Romney and repeal Obama care. This is simply growing government health care. Governments on experts, they say health care spending is going up. CMS actuaries say health care will go up 7% in 2014 as this law begins to be enacted. They did not bend the cost curve down as the president promised. They did not make health care spending more sustainable. We can't afford another entitlement program. We'll have more people in the cart than pulling the cart. We'll go the way of Europe if we don't repeal.
Former Vt. Gov. Howard Dean responded:
Quote:
Let's deal with the exchanges. If you don't put in your own exchange, the federal government will run one for you.
Where you pie a program.
Bobby has a choice of having this done for him by the federal government or doing it himself. I think that's a no-brainer. But look, in my state, we have had universal health care for every kid under 18 for 20 years by expansion of Medicaid. In Louisiana, 48th in the country in terms of child poverty, 48th in the country in terms of premature deaths, 48th in the country in terms of industrial accidents and so forth. Just by expanding Medicaid alone, by accepting the president's Medicaid extension, 340,000 out of those 860,000 uninsured people get covered. This is a great deal.
And the federal government pays for 100% of it.
I have some sympathy with the notion that we don't want to get into this thing and they'll cut it back to 90% and 70%. But right now for the next ten years, this program is pretty much fully funded. And I'll just -- we're doing a lot of facts and figures here. When I was running for president and campaigning in South Carolina, we calculated that if the South Carolina governor at that time had done what we did in Vermont in terms of matching money for Medicaid, they get 80%, 20% they put up, 80% the feds put up, they would have raised their entire gross state product by 2% simply by having the same Medicaid rules that we do. So i think this stuff about not accepting Medicaid and not accepting exchanges is crazy. If you don't like the law, I understand. I don't like the law all that much. But the fact of the matter is it is the law, it will work, it's necessary, and Governor Romney knows it because he did it in Massachusetts.
Not covering poor ppl is something those GOP governors will have to weigh, for some it might cost them. Obama did try to help those ppl, it was the court that took that away, not Obama. It something that will need to be fixed.
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No Obama crossed the line into unconstitutional ground. Those poor people could have been helped with America spending a fraction of what we are about to spend because of this stupid bill.
Obama never cared or intended to help anyone. He intended to create a law that would tip the playing field so that in 10 years everyone is sliding into government run exchanges and in the end private insurance companies will give up and stop providing health insurance.
Obama designed a law to BREAK the system so we can get to a universal HC system.
THAT is what Obama did. and its sickening to those of us who actually care about the word Liberty.
Unconstitutional???? Were you asleep for the last week. ACA was ruled constitutional. Why do you strict constructionists always start whining when the working on the constitution don't go your way?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd
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No Obama crossed the line into unconstitutional ground. Those poor people could have been helped with America spending a fraction of what we are about to spend because of this stupid bill.
Obama never cared or intended to help anyone. He intended to create a law that would tip the playing field so that in 10 years everyone is sliding into government run exchanges and in the end private insurance companies will give up and stop providing health insurance.
Obama designed a law to BREAK the system so we can get to a universal HC system.
THAT is what Obama did. and its sickening to those of us who actually care about the word Liberty.
The law of the land says obamacare is a tax. Done!
Tax or penalty? only your lawyer knows for sure. this conversation disenfranchises voters but it will be the voter who decides and it will not be based on whether Obamacare is disected as a law or penalty. It matter not if the truck that ran you over is a Peterbuilt or Mack. That argument is academic and a distraction. The hand in your pocket is the main concern.
Obama has no idea as to whether Obamacare is a tax or a penalty or both as he and his minions say whatever is most useful to them in any given situation.
Don't get distracted by legal terms that need to be appealed and interpreted and reversed and take years to 'resolve' until challenged again. ************************************************** ***************
Obama lawyers argued earlier it was a tax not a penalty.
Then the SCOTUS declared it a tax.
Jack Lew WH chief of staff said it is a penalty not a tax.
Senator Obama is clearly dead set against penalizing people through healthcare so no way is Obamacare a penalty.
Apparently Obama is against Obamacare as he wants more time to read the legislation, is against the penalties healthcare would incur and would never pass it by nuclear option!
It is clear Obama is against Obamacare!
************************************************** * obama attacks HC's healthcare for penalties it incurs
There is a misconception about this. The states ARE covering their poor people with medicaid.
Under Obamcare though, there is now a new group of "poor" as the government widens the definition.
They are not considered "poor" today but will be in 2014 ? And only for Obamacare ?
Do you not see how bad in decline this country is ? A growing "poor" class dependent on the government and everyone is hoping that it will all be covered by taxing 400 ultra wealthy people ? Is the koolaid that strong ?
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