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The hate crimes laws are designed not only to silence anyone that has a desenting view but to give special protection under the law for particular segments of society. The odds of a white person being afforded these same special protections would probably be like finding a needle in a haystack.
The underlying tone of your post is unfortunately, hatred. On the one hand, later on you vehemently state your support for the equal protection clause, but elsewhere strongly oppose gays because they want to be treated equally. "Special treatment" is the term used by people who don't want to have certain groups of people achieve social acceptability or equality. That kind of thinking is a hate crime in my opinion, yet...
On the other hand, as a gay person, I am opposed to this hate crime legislation because it won't accomplish anything. It will limit free speech and discourage dissent at a time when it is sorely needed. I think practically any crime is a hate crime. Hate itself is not a crime, it's an emotion that everyone is guilty of. Does it contribute to the commission of a crime? Most certainly. But to make hate a crime will not stop it, so why bother wasting time on it? Do we really need thousands more in federal prisons?
Whites are something like <12% of the world population; why do we enact "hate crime" laws in our own nations? WHITES, _WE'RE_ the minority. 2/3rds of the world's population is in Asia, and Africa's will hit 2 billion by 2050.
Location: In an illegal immigrant free part of the country.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhouse2001
The underlying tone of your post is unfortunately, hatred. On the one hand, later on you vehemently state your support for the equal protection clause, but elsewhere strongly oppose gays because they want to be treated equally. "Special treatment" is the term used by people who don't want to have certain groups of people achieve social acceptability or equality. That kind of thinking is a hate crime in my opinion, yet...
On the other hand, as a gay person, I am opposed to this hate crime legislation because it won't accomplish anything. It will limit free speech and discourage dissent at a time when it is sorely needed. I think practically any crime is a hate crime. Hate itself is not a crime, it's an emotion that everyone is guilty of. Does it contribute to the commission of a crime? Most certainly. But to make hate a crime will not stop it, so why bother wasting time on it? Do we really need thousands more in federal prisons?
Unfortunately I cannot respond to this because speech is limited on this subject. YouTube, Pride vs Progress
On another forum I brought this same subject up, and someone asked my race. I said Caucasian. They said then your the only one who has to worry about Hate crime charges. I was taken back a little and then thought about it and asked this next question to them, and now to you..
Can a Black, Asian, Hispanic, or any other nationality be charged in a hate crime, or are whites the only ones who can be charged? Have there even been any other nationalities charged with hate crimes? I'm curious to find out.
Here is something I just found while researching this... I guess there have been, FBI - Uniform Crime Reports - Hate Crime Statistics 1995 (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hatecm.htm#bias - broken link) .
well they were right, well almost its white male not just white. you are the only person that will be charged with these crimes. also true of EEOC charges of sex discrimination harrassment so forth so on
also to add to the list firearms violations, knife violations, public misconduct, rudeness, agressive behavior, closed groups, "bonding"
abusive behavior. racial language.
did i skip anything? oh i forgot pedafilia. now its very true lots of other folks do this stuff but it does not apply to them. when they do it its called a variety of other more pleasant names.
anyway buck up guy its all about you, but that is why they call us MEN right?
we are the only non victims left standing, so i guess we win huh?
stephen s
san diego
citigirl is absolutely right. In this day of Affirmative Action to create a level playing field, we are doing exactly the opposite. "Hate crimes" legislation is wrong simply because it does not punish the crime, but the thoughts that go with it. So now you can be punished for thinking a certain way. What is next? Developing technology to do brain scans on us to find out who thinks in a deviant fashion?
Hate crimes laws do not cover thought of any sort. Everyone of the capacity is free to think whatever hateful and bigoted thoughts he or she can dream up. But you don't get to act on those thoughts against another. And that's the gist of hate crimes laws...that in addition to the crime of assault committed against a person for example, there is an additional crime against society if that assault were substantially based on simple hatred of another group of people.
It's one thing if I'm sitting in a bar, have a couple of drinks, get into an argument with some guy, and end up punching him. That's an assault. But it's another if I deliberately go out on the street and punch the first black guy I see just because he's black. That's an assault also, and equal time for the equal crime on that score. But there's that other dimension. There was no provocation, no even fleeting justification for the action. An individual was assaulted essentially at random and for no other reason than his being black in this case. That alone is a crime against the very definition of society that establishes an additional level of culpability that hate crimes laws seek, on behalf of society, to address...
Hate crimes laws do not cover thought of any sort. Everyone of the capacity is free to think whatever hateful and bigoted thoughts he or she can dream up. But you don't get to act on those thoughts against another. And that's the gist of hate crimes laws...that in addition to the crime of assault committed against a person for example, there is an additional crime against society if that assault were substantially based on simple hatred of another group of people.
It's one thing if I'm sitting in a bar, have a couple of drinks, get into an argument with some guy, and end up punching him. That's an assault. But it's another if I deliberately go out on the street and punch the first black guy I see just because he's black. That's an assault also, and equal time for the equal crime on that score. But there's that other dimension. There was no provocation, no even fleeting justification for the action. An individual was assaulted essentially at random and for no other reason than his being black in this case. That alone is a crime against the very definition of society that establishes an additional level of culpability that hate crimes laws seek, on behalf of society, to address...
So what do you think should be the penalties for each scenerio?
So what do you think should be the penalties for each scenerio?
The assault part is pretty well covered for each as is. I'm not convinced that extra prison time on the hate aspect is always the best route to follow, though. Maybe we could take some clues from current sex offender paradigms. Force convicted bigots to register with the local police. Have every state publish a list of where all the bigots live. Don't let them live within a mile of any school. Have the local police go out and warn each home in the neighborhood if a bigot is about to move into the area. Maybe bigots should have to wear a tracking bracelet all the time. Maybe some of those sorts of things would be appropriate and effective...
The assault part is pretty well covered for each as is. I'm not convinced that extra prison time on the hate aspect is always the best route to follow, though. Maybe we could take some clues from current sex offender paradigms. Force convicted bigots to register with the local police. Have every state publish a list of where all the bigots live. Don't let them live within a mile of any school. Have the local police go out and warn each home in the neighborhood if a bigot is about to move into the area. Maybe bigots should have to wear a tracking bracelet all the time. Maybe some of those sorts of things would be appropriate and effective...
Would it also not be appropriate to register the bar room brawler as such? That way everyone would know to avoid the offender in a bar and that he would be proned to get out of control after having a drink.
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