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I heard someone recently compare Romney to a windsock. I think that's an apt description.
He hasn't said it wasn't a tax since the SCOTUS ruling. A campaign advisor of his did.
This isn't a "flip flop" on an issue - this is really about semantics and nothing more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyJude514
So, I guess this means Romney is admitting that he passed a huge tax increase in Massachusetts...
I suppose....but no court has ruled that to be a tax. Presumably, the State of MA is permitted under the US Constitution (not sure about the MA Constitution) to require everyone to purchase health insurance and fine people for not doing so. SCOTUS ruled that the federal government is not allowed to under the 10th Amendment, but they can impose a tax on people who don't have health insurance.
He hasn't said it wasn't a tax since the SCOTUS ruling. A campaign advisor of his did.
Right. Except that Eric Fehrnstrom is one of Romney's senior advisors. He doesn't have a clue what Romney really thinks, he just spouts off opinions off the top of his head, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok
This isn't a "flip flop" on an issue - this is really about semantics and nothing more.
I guess Boehner finally got around to updating Robotney's software. He was starting to get off his script.
But really, is Romney seriously a presidential candidate. This guy is such a clown. Tried to dump this in on July 4 like nobody would notice. It's the information age Mittens, nothing sneaks by.
That train left the station, you are on the platform all alone.
Ask Obama and his lawyers if obamacare is a tax or a fine.
their answers vary from moment to moment depending on the venue.
Obama said healthcare ,which cretes penalties, is unacceptable when he attacked Hillary Clinton's healthcare proposal.
If we are to beliebve obama based onhis words, he would never propose healthcare which created penatlies, we then must conclude obamacare is a tax or obama is a liar.
Gosh the SCOTUS proclaimed Obamacare the law of the land and a tax.
Tax or penalty only your lawyer knows for sure. this conversation disenfranchises voters but it will be the voter who decide.
Obama lawyers argued earlier it was a tax not a penalty.
Then the SCOTUS declared it a tax.
Jack Lew WH chief of staff said it is a penalty not a tax.
Senator Obama is clearly dead set against penalizing people through healthcare so no way is Obamacare a penalty.
Apparently Obama is against Obamacare as he wants more time to read the legislation, is against the penalties healthcare would incur and would never pass it by nuclear option!
It is clear Obama is against Obamacare!
************************************************** * obama attacks HC's healthcare for penalties it incurs
Right. Except that Eric Fehrnstrom is one of Romney's senior advisors. He doesn't have a clue what Romney really thinks, he just spouts off opinions off the top of his head, right?
The Romney campaign has not been run very well to be honest, IMO. I gather that they have big problems with a lack of communication and a lack of coordination. That being said, I also think the Obama campaign has not been run very well this year - quite a change from 2008.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyJude514
And the tap-dancing begins...
Did Romney change his stance on mandates today? No, he has said throughout this campaign that he thinks states should be able to impose health insurance mandates, but that the federal government should not.
Also, he didn't say he thought it was a tax. He simply said SCOTUS determined it was a tax and, therefore, it is a tax - but that he still believes it's an unconstitutional penalty. He specifically said that he agrees with the dissent.
While no court has ruled the mandate in RomneyCare a tax, the US Supreme Court has ruled the mandate in ObamaCare a tax. It has not been ruled unconstitutional for a state to impose a fine on someone who doesn't have health insurance; it HAS been ruled unconstitutional for the federal government to impose a fine on someone who doesn't have health insurance.
BTW - it's important to note that Romney favored a quite different plan in MA than what was actually enacted.
Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 07-04-2012 at 12:19 PM..
That train left the station, you are on the platform all alone.
Ask Obama and his lawyers if obamacare is a tax or a fine.
their answers vary from moment to moment depending on the venue.
You must be in the wrong thread. This one has nothing to do with Obama. Obviously you have nothing to add to this subject. Go start a thread on Obama if that's what you want to discuss.
The Romney campaign has not been run very well to be honest, IMO. I gather that they have big problems with a lack of communication and a lack of coordination. That being said, I also think the Obama campaign has not been run very well this year - quite a change from 2008.
Did Romney change his stance on mandates today? No, he has said throughout this campaign that he thinks states should be able to impose health insurance mandates, but that the federal government should not.
Also, it's important to note that Romney favored a quite different plan in MA than what was actually enacted.
I think the Obama campaign has been run well. Unemployment is still over 8% and if the election were to be held today, Obama would be the likely winner. His campaign isn't going to be as dynamic as it was in 08' because he's the incumbent but all he has to do is sit back and let Romney bumble and stumble through his flip-flops and package it all up for voters to see.
So wait, Romney signed a plan into law that was different then what he favored, then has spent nearly the last decade proclaiming it his signature accomplishment before walking away from it after the passing of Obamacare which is essentially Romneycare. This dude really is an etch-a-sketch.
I think the Obama campaign has been run well. Unemployment is still over 8% and if the election were to be held today, Obama would be the likely winner.
I don't know about that. Obama is still quite a bit below 50% in most of the battleground states and undecideds in the last polls before the election are far more likely to break for challengers than incumbents. Also, an incumbent's approval at the time of the election is usually about the ceiling in terms of the percentage of the vote they can expect to receive. And Obama's approval is 45%-48% nationally and in most of the battleground states and likely several points lower among those who would actually vote (since Republicans/Republican-leaning independents are more likely to vote). We have no idea what will happen between now and the election, but I don't think you can say Obama would be the likely winner if the election was held today given the number of undecideds and his approval ratings even if he is marginally ahead in polling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenyo
His campaign isn't going to be as dynamic as it was in 08' because he's the incumbent but all he has to do is sit back and let Romney bumble and stumble through his flip-flops and package it all up for voters to see.
Need I remind you of the constant Obama flip flops? Including on this issue.... His lawyers argued it wasn't a tax AND was a tax in the same cases. Even though it was ruled by SCOTUS to be a tax, it's not a tax now in his view. He was against the mandate, then he was suddenly for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenyo
So wait, Romney signed a plan into law that was different then what he favored, then has spent nearly the last decade proclaiming it his signature accomplishment before walking away from it after the passing of Obamacare which is essentially Romneycare. This dude really is an etch-a-sketch.
I hope you got a good pair of tap shoes.
The last decade? The plan was signed into law 6 years ago. That's barely more than half a decade. RomneyCare is 70 pages. ObamaCare is more than 2,000. ObamaCare has a lot more taxes than just the individual mandate. It calls for changes to Medicare. It has an employer mandate. It delegates TONS of decision-making to unelected bureaucrats at HHS. RomneyCare does include both an individual mandate and an employer mandate, but Romney vetoed the employer mandate (the veto was overriden) and wanted an opt out clause allowing people to opt out of the individual mandate. Furthermore, Romney wanted people to be allowed to meet the requirements of the individual mandate simply by buying cheap catastrophic coverage (for emergencies only). Not to mention one is a state program and one is a federal program. If Romney ever was for a national version of RomneyCare (and I am not saying he was...he may have hinted at it as a possibility, but he certainly never explicitly said he was), he likely would have wanted it to be what he envisoned for RomneyCare, not what was actually enacted. What was enacted should be called LegislatureCare.
The Romney campaign has not been run very well to be honest, IMO. I gather that they have big problems with a lack of communication and a lack of coordination.
Are you seriously going to try to argue that one of Romney's top advisors went on record in the mainstream media with reaction to what is one of the biggest campaign issues of the election and didn't know what his boss thought about the ruling? Seriously? You should be compensated for the incredible tap-dancing numbers you consistently perform for Romney.
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