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Old 10-03-2007, 11:59 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
7,731 posts, read 13,394,624 times
Reputation: 5982

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Quote:
Originally Posted by grew-up-3rd-culture View Post
I propose (being in my 30's at the moment) that Americans should vote to decrease the amount of money being dolled out on each social security check NOW, so when gen-X reaches retirement we have something for us! Your thoughts.
Right on. The Government should have a fund set aside for this in the future.
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:20 AM
 
13,609 posts, read 20,666,167 times
Reputation: 7620
Quote:
Nobody is playing any games. The operations of SSA and the SSTF are established and governed by statute, and all of them are transparent.
Please! PBS showed clips of Senator Dick Durbin speaking on SS 12 years ago decrying (truthfully) its deterioration. The GOP would not play ball. Now his view is much akin to yours as the Dems will not play ball. Our leaders have failed us.

You are rather cavalier in your dismisal of non profits as Big Money (yet to be defined). The Brookings Inst is certainly not conservative and they have come to the same conclusion as anyone who is rational and honest- SS is dying. And if you care to take apart Samuelson's conclusion bit by bit, using the data throughout, your dismisal of him would have some merit.

You stike me as a pretty smart guy. Thus I am mystified as to why you cannot see the obvious.

Either let me out of this scam or kill the deer. Its my money and I can invest it better than a bunch of apparatchiks. An index fund, any index fund, would score better returns.
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:55 AM
NCN
 
Location: NC/SC Border Patrol
21,661 posts, read 25,504,682 times
Reputation: 24343
The problem is that money was taken out of the SS kitty to fund other things. It should have been left alone and then we would have plenty of money for those who are not using your money, but are getting benefits for what they have paid in the past. We have been paying for years and the benefits should be there.
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Old 10-04-2007, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Roanoke VA
2,032 posts, read 6,866,753 times
Reputation: 927
I hope social security doesn't become a democrat vs republican or liberal vs right wing issue. Unfortunately many younger people will not benefit from this program since it has been so grossly mismanaged over the last 8 years by the Bushys. The program was fully funded by the Clinton adminstration but the republicans in Congress at that time decided to go the route of deficit spending instead and it never got shored up. The republicans have never liked these "socialist" programs including Medicare & Medicaid and now health insurance to disadvantaged children. There are many younger people working who should be educated about why the program was started in the first place. The Congress and President had to start this program since people in Appalachia, the South, inner cities and on Wall Street were standing in line for a handout from anyone. The "Brother can u spare a dime" phrase was coined. I think the U.S. is a lot more vulnerable to world economic downturns than in our entire history right now. If the health system, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security collapse whats left here? We must take it seriously!!
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Old 10-04-2007, 11:26 AM
 
13,609 posts, read 20,666,167 times
Reputation: 7620
Quote:
The problem is that money was taken out of the SS kitty to fund other things.
The SS Kitty aka the Trust Fund is accounting jargon. There is no special fund, no reserve, no bank set aside to hold that money. That has been tried. It was called the USSR. SS is a pay as you go system aka a Ponzi Scheme.

Quote:
I hope social security doesn't become a democrat vs republican or liberal vs right wing issue. Unfortunately many younger people will not benefit from this program since it has been so grossly mismanaged over the last 8 years by the Bushys.
Already is. SS was messed up before Bush even came to prominence in Texas. Its Demographics. That is the problem. But yes, give your money to the government and all hell breaks loose. Or has that pothole down the road from you been fixed yet?
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Old 10-04-2007, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Roanoke VA
2,032 posts, read 6,866,753 times
Reputation: 927
If you would like to give your total allegiance to Wall Street during the coming depression, good luck!
War spending, credit worries, low interest rates, unemployment, deficit spending, falling dollar abroad, the impending China stock market bubble, rising gold prices plus the possibility of more war before Bush leaves office, I'd say we are in a mess.
I guess a lot of folks on here are of different ages. If you are young don't believe you will always have it so good in this country. It looks like tough times are ahead. If you are older you are wiser and know that nothing good lasts forever. Enjoy now but be aware it may not last.
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Old 10-04-2007, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,131,972 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by roanoker 4 View Post
If you are older you are wiser and know that nothing good lasts forever. Enjoy now but be aware it may not last.
I AM older - AND wiser - hence why I don't believe in the SS system. Hence why YEARS ago - I withdrew from the System. I fear for our younger generations because they are not being ALLOWED to make their OWN decisions - the government has taken that away from them.

Clearly, the left want the people to be beholden to the government - "craddle to grave".

Personally, I believe the government should be beholden to the PEOPLE

Somewhere along the way, the ideals of this nation got totally screwed up -

And, Social Security is one of the screwist
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Old 10-04-2007, 01:10 PM
 
13,609 posts, read 20,666,167 times
Reputation: 7620
Quote:
If you would like to give your total allegiance to Wall Street during the coming depression, good luck!
I have been investing my retirement savings in a variety of stock mutual funds since I was 25 (am 42 now). I will not boast, but suffice it to say that the results have been excellent. If you are averse to the stock market, you are welcome to put your money in passbook savings and work until you expire at 95.


Quote:
War spending, credit worries, low interest rates, unemployment, deficit spending, falling dollar abroad, the impending China stock market bubble, rising gold prices plus the possibility of more war before Bush leaves office, I'd say we are in a mess.
I will not comment on such a far flung conglomeration of statements except to ask, have you not just given a good reason NOT to have your retirement money controlled by the government?


Quote:
I guess a lot of folks on here are of different ages. If you are young don't believe you will always have it so good in this country. It looks like tough times are ahead. If you are older you are wiser and know that nothing good lasts forever. Enjoy now but be aware it may not last.
At age 42, this is the 1,987th epitath for America I have read in my lifetime. I will file it next to the other 1,986.
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:00 PM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,378,135 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
Please! PBS showed clips of Senator Dick Durbin speaking on SS 12 years ago decrying (truthfully) its deterioration. The GOP would not play ball. Now his view is much akin to yours as the Dems will not play ball. Our leaders have failed us.
Twelve years ago, SS was supposed to hit The Big Crisis in 2029. In 2005, it was 2042, and we didn't even do anything in the decade in between. Doesn't sound much like deterioration to me. But certainly Bush has failed us in proposing changes that deliberately intend to undermine, rather than solidify, Social Security.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
You are rather cavalier in your dismisal of non profits as Big Money (yet to be defined).
Very few of the big banks, financial organizations, and brokerage houses (which is how I have more than once defined it) are non-profits. Otherwise, Big Money is kind of like Big Pharma...you don't usually need to define it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
The Brookings Inst is certainly not conservative and they have come to the same conclusion as anyone who is rational and honest- SS is dying.
Brookings is independent, housing scholars of various leanings. If you'd like to link to a Brookings paper that says SS is dying, I will point out the reasons why that conclusion is in error.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
And if you care to take apart Samuelson's conclusion bit by bit, using the data throughout, your dismisal of him would have some merit.
You haven't linked to anything from him either. Just mentioned his name, twice now, I think. Per the earlier reply, he is a journalist. He editorializes choosing data as he sees fit to support his positions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
You stike me as a pretty smart guy. Thus I am mystified as to why you cannot see the obvious.
I see what is obvious when one understands and looks at the numbers. Thus it is obvious to me that when George W. Bush stands up on TV next to an early-30's American worker and claims that by the time this strapping young fellow is ready to retire, SS will be 'flat bust...bankrupt!', he is lying. Flat...out...lying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
Either let me out of this scam or kill the deer. Its my money and I can invest it better than a bunch of apparatchiks. An index fund, any index fund, would score better returns.
Per many earlier posts, it isn't your money, it isn't an investment program, and it is laws, not apparatchiks, that govern the situation. Only a fortunate investor would actually be able to beat SS over the long run. The rest would be worse off, many of them would be much worse off.
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,170 posts, read 24,238,374 times
Reputation: 15284
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
Only a fortunate investor would actually be able to beat SS over the long run. The rest would be worse off, many of them would be much worse off.

Do the math. Then ask yourself in all honesty if you couldn't beat the rate of return you get:

Political Calculations: Approximating Social Security's Rate of Return
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