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Sorry, no offense but I am not like you. I come from an upper middle class background. My grandfathers (and even great grands) on both sides owned property, built businesses and educated their children despite constant threats from the Klan. My third great grandfather was even murdered by the Klan. My family has dealt with jealousy from certain types of Whites for being prosperous for generations.
I should tell you about my ancestors that ate tree bark during the winter to survive. The ones who were treated like crap when they came to this country from Polond. My ancestors were dirt poor and now the majority of my family is doing very good. But we are white so it was real easy, we just sat back and things just fell into our laps. Looks like you had a headstart to fortunes.
I always found that playing the blame game always seems to slow progress. To much wasted time coming up with excuses.
Sorry but white privilege is and has been quantifiable. Even in the late 1950's Research into the effects of white privilege were instrumental in convincing the Supreme Court in Brown v Board of Education that there was a quantifiable rational for overturning Plessy v Ferguson and the same sorts of quantitative research has been the basis for determining the facts in far too many discrimination cases that I would care to mention (I already provide more than my share of unpaid research as it is).
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This thread is about people refusing to be made into victims, and actually strive to out perform the people who look down on them.
My compliments for getting a significant part of my premiss but I find it hard to understand that if you recognize that it isn't sufficient to just be like everyone else, that you would fail to acknowledge that having to overachieve isn't evidence of a bias that requires more effort on the part of one part of the population than the another isn't prima facia evidence of privileges being afforded to one group, the lack of a need to be better than another.
Sorry, no offense but I am not like you. I come from an upper middle class background. My grandfathers (and even great grands) on both sides owned property, built businesses and educated their children despite constant threats from the Klan. My third great grandfather was even murdered by the Klan. My family has dealt with jealousy from certain types of Whites for being prosperous for generations.
So? There are upper middle class Black people what of it? It doesn't negate the experiences people have with non upper middle class black people, who are far more numerous.
My ancestors were dirt poor and now the majority of my family is doing very good. But we are white so it was real easy, we just sat back and things just fell into our laps.
While I would not dismiss either the level of ethic prejudice faced by immigrant populations, like the Poles, or their own efforts to overcome those prejudices I always find it fascinating that later generations don't comprehend that one of the most important criteria for their eventual assimilation was in part the result of being white. As an example, a Pole could simply Anglicize their name, as many did, and move into the dominate white culture undetected.
Many white people are prevented from getting jobs or bidding on jobs because of Affirmative Action. Stuff like that happens ALL of the time. So we do know how you feel. Maybe if we stop making special exceptions because of someones race people won't look at skin color as much.
I will be the first to acknowledge that without a doubt affirmative action is a blunt instrument that not only harms whites but also has a negative impact upon racial conciliation, but the fact is that recalcitrant discriminatory institutions, organizations and employers left the courts and government few other effective tools to rectify the continued existence of racial and gender discrimination.
I will be the first to acknowledge that without a doubt affirmative action is a blunt instrument that not only harms whites but also has a negative impact upon racial conciliation, but the fact is that recalcitrant discriminatory institutions, organizations and employers left the courts and government few other effective tools to rectify the continued existence of racial and gender discrimination.
Dr. King wanted affirmative action to be based on income not race, but LBJ dismissed focusing on class claiming that to do so was "socialist" and focusing on race was more "American"
Obama when he was in the US Senate talked about making low income whites eligible for AA but as soon as he got in the White House he stopped talking about those things.
Also keep in mind that making white women eligible for AA deeply hurt African-Americans as racist institutions, employers, and organizations preferred to hire white women over black men. If the intent had really been to rectify the existence of racial and religious discrimination the gender part should have been left out.
Dr. King wanted affirmative action to be based on income not race, but LBJ dismissed focusing on class claiming that to do so was "socialist" and focusing on race was more "American"
I could see that considering Kings understanding of issues of class, but I would also like to see a citation for the statement. However the only clear statement by King regarding Affirmative Action to my knowledge was:
“It is impossible to create a formula for the future which does not take into account that our society has been doing something special against the Negro for hundreds of years. How then can he be absorbed into the mainstream of American life if we do not do something special for him now, in order to balance the equation and equip him to compete on a just and equal basis?”
“The struggle for rights is, at bottom, a struggle for opportunities . In asking for something special, the Negro is not seeking charity. He does not want to be given a job he cannot handle. Neither, however, does he want to be told that there is no place where he can be trained to handle it. So, with equal opportunity must come the practical, realistic aid which will equip him to seize it. Giving a pair of shoes to a man who has not learned to walk is a cruel jest.” (M.L. King, Why We Can’t Wait)
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Also keep in mind that making white women eligible for AA deeply hurt African-Americans as racist institutions, employers, and organizations preferred to hire white women over black men. If the intent had really been to rectify the existence of racial and religious discrimination the gender part should have been left out.
My grandmother put it this way, "Them Women libers are just looking for a way to keep more black women in their kitchens." Not exactly the most progressive opinion who earned her teaching degree when she was in her 60's but, hey.
OMG this is RIDICULOUS. The black man I married is a COLONEL in the Army and is nearly done with his doctorate degree. We met in college, where he was on a full scholarship. We traveled all over the world together and lived in a wide variety of circumstances, since we married very young (we have since divorced but we had many years, and four kids, together).
His family includes a high school principal in California, several business owners, teachers, and several members of the military who have made it a career.
My own KIDS are considered "black" by most Americans - surely you don't think I think I'm better than them, or that I would relegate my children to a subclass that I thought was inferior!
You're just ticked off because you just made a fool out of yourself. Get over it and let's move forward.
This is what YOU said (below).
You are the one who made the statement about Black people not being concerned about certain behaviors and having a higher tolerance level for "irresponsible lifestyles". But I guess your White blood makes your Black kids "different" from the rest, right?
FYI, being married to a Black man DOES NOT make you an expert on Black Americans. The tone of this first post of yours is quite obvious.
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Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
Well. My husband and I just had an interesting conversation about just this sort of thing yesterday - in reverse.
Keep in mind that I am speaking from a small, Southern town perspective.
If a local white girl has a couple of kids by a couple of different guys by the time she's twenty, and she's never been married and her baby daddy (both of them) are in and out of prison, most people would categorize her as white trash and probably a ****. In other words, she'd be stigmatized to some extent. She would feel some social ramifications for her actions, in other words.
I don't see much shock or discouragement of such behavior, let alone many other social ramifications from that same behavior within the black community in general. There's a much higher tolerance level for that sort of irresponsible lifestyle.
I'm not condoning judgmentalism. I'm just speaking objectively. Right or wrong, within white and black culture, the reaction to each girl would be quite different.
Its ALL a matter of perspective. Trust me. Something as simple as not being pulled over by the police simply because you are Black and driving a "nice" car in a "nice" neighborhood is also a part of White privilege.
How about being pulled over by police for driving while white in a not so good neighborhood then having to explain that I was visiting friends and not in the hood to buy drugs. Been there and done that.
I have encountered enough people like you in my lifetime to be able to smell the bs from a mile away. No mindreading necessary. The fact is that people like yourself simply do not want to hear "our" reality. Well, that's too bad. If you don't like what you are reading, don't come into the thread. And if you post nonsense, expect to be called on the carpet.
Again, YOU do not get a say in what WE do or do not discuss. Again, if you don't want to hear it, don't read and post in the thread.
Heh. OK. You don't want discussion anyway, you want to sit in stew in your racial crockpot.
What does that have to do with THIS thread? The problem with folks like yourself is that you read or experience something from "ONE" Black person and apply it to ALL BLACK PEOPLE yet you want to be viewed as individuals. So if I say, "Well this racist White guy posted something disgusting in the Politics forum. That's the problem with ALL WHITE PEOPLE..." you would scream holy hell.
It's but one symptom that you're too blind to see. You and "you people" (see what I did there) think linearly and can't apply abstract reasoning so my point is wasted (see what I did there).
The hypocrisy of "you people" is astounding. So I will repeat what I said early in this thread and say that the OP's "real message" will be lost on all but a few. Thank you for proving me right.
I'm not even going to respond to the rest of your garbage, your constant use of "you people" and "people like you" demonstrates exactly where you come from and how you think. It's not worth the effort to get you to pull your race-coloured blinders off because you're incapable of doing so. You see the world the way you do and won't allow yourself to see it in any other way. If you want racists under every bed and "The Man" keeping you down then that's what you'll get. You'll reap as you sow so go forth and sow some more
Racial minorities and other types of minorities generally don't, and don't have to, spend all their time thinking about their minority status. They're constantly reminded of it by the majority.
If you're looking for a racist under every bed then you'll find exactly what you expect to find. That itching between your shoulders is you looking at you, not everyone around you looking at you.
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Looks like you had a headstart to fortunes.
