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Old 07-10-2012, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,982 posts, read 13,734,011 times
Reputation: 5689

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Let's be honest for a minute. Even if all the Bush II tax cuts were relaxed, we would only be going back the the Clinton era tax levels. This was not the end of the world. I understand the logic of extending the cuts a bit because of the recession and constrained demand. But it is only a defibrillator treatment for the economy, not a sustainable tax policy.

The drive by the GOP to make all the tax cuts permanent, and to call any sensible expiration of these tax cuts to be a massive tax hike, is nothing less than an insurgent strategy straight from Grover Norquist. The only way to balance the budget at such low tax rates is to axe thousands of federal jobs and benefits for the poorest in society in these difficult times, permanently. Taking the axe to the government is a far right wet dream, but undermining basic services and destroying middle class jobs is not going to make our country stronger. It is an aggressive, almost fascist agenda, and considering the dire straights of the middle class, spectacularly foolish.

I know that I, and I suspect most of you, were doing better in the Clinton years. So returning to some fo those fiscal policies sounds much better than what we have now.
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:30 PM
 
1,698 posts, read 1,818,978 times
Reputation: 777
I've always found surprising how the Alternative Minimum Tax is never debated, ever. There are a huge number of people making something between 75k-500k who are paying this huge tax. People making these types of salaries are often small business owners, professionals, etc. But, as my tax professor said, no one is going to touch the AMT because it's such a big source of revenue. Same with capital gains and carried interest... these are just freebies to the richest of the rich. But they don't appear to be going anywhere.
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:43 PM
 
5,524 posts, read 9,925,797 times
Reputation: 1867
What I don't get is that these were temporary tax cuts to begin with so people knew they had to end sometime. Why can't we get an administration with a pair to just let them expire? It's not raising taxes it's removing your discount.

If Macy's has pants for $50 and then a one day half of sale when they go back to $50 the following day they never raised the price. They brought it back to normal. WHY CAN'T PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT CONCEPT WITH TAXES???!!!
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Old 07-10-2012, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,982 posts, read 13,734,011 times
Reputation: 5689
Quote:
Originally Posted by tluv00 View Post
What I don't get is that these were temporary tax cuts to begin with so people knew they had to end sometime. Why can't we get an administration with a pair to just let them expire? It's not raising taxes it's removing your discount.

If Macy's has pants for $50 and then a one day half of sale when they go back to $50 the following day they never raised the price. They brought it back to normal. WHY CAN'T PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT CONCEPT WITH TAXES???!!!
This is a good reason to go Obama 2012. He will not be seeking reelection, so he can pull the plug on it.
If anyone is serious about about balancing the budget, the Bush tax cuts have to go.

If Romney is elected, he will need to think about reelection, and so he won't do it.
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Old 07-10-2012, 02:00 PM
 
5,787 posts, read 4,707,026 times
Reputation: 853
It's not JUST the Bush Tax Cuts that are a threat to our economy, but also the raising of the Death Tax, and the increase taxes on capital gains and the Obamacare taxes.....combine them all together and the USA is headed to go over a tax cliff.

If you agree that the economy is still hurting and unemployment is still way too high (as most reasonable people would admit), then you have to also agree that in 2009 when Obama himself said raising taxes would hurt the economy, he was telling the truth for once!
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Old 07-10-2012, 02:01 PM
 
5,787 posts, read 4,707,026 times
Reputation: 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
If anyone is serious about about balancing the budget, the Bush tax cuts have to go.

What budget is that?

Congress hasn't passed a budget since Bush was in office!!
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Old 07-10-2012, 02:03 PM
 
1,698 posts, read 1,818,978 times
Reputation: 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by jt800 View Post
It's not JUST the Bush Tax Cuts that are a threat to our economy, but also the raising of the Death Tax, and the increase taxes on capital gains and the Obamacare taxes.....combine them all together and the USA is headed to go over a tax cliff.

If you agree that the economy is still hurting and unemployment is still way too high (as most reasonable people would admit), then you have to also agree that in 2009 when Obama himself said raising taxes would hurt the economy, he was telling the truth for once!
I disagree. These are taxes that predominantly effect rich or ultra-rich people. They're not going to send shockwaves through the economy. Obamacare is a tax penalty, which is different from a tax. It's only going to negatively effect a limited number of people.
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Old 07-10-2012, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
23,667 posts, read 23,987,722 times
Reputation: 14996
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
Let's be honest for a minute.
I guess I should assume that you haven't been honest in any previous discussion...
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Old 07-10-2012, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,810 posts, read 26,408,051 times
Reputation: 25705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
Let's be honest for a minute. Even if all the Bush II tax cuts were relaxed, we would only be going back the the Clinton era tax levels. This was not the end of the world. I understand the logic of extending the cuts a bit because of the recession and constrained demand. But it is only a defibrillator treatment for the economy, not a sustainable tax policy.

The drive by the GOP to make all the tax cuts permanent, and to call any sensible expiration of these tax cuts to be a massive tax hike, is nothing less than an insurgent strategy straight from Grover Norquist. The only way to balance the budget at such low tax rates is to axe thousands of federal jobs and benefits for the poorest in society in these difficult times, permanently. Taking the axe to the government is a far right wet dream, but undermining basic services and destroying middle class jobs is not going to make our country stronger. It is an aggressive, almost fascist agenda, and considering the dire straights of the middle class, spectacularly foolish.

I know that I, and I suspect most of you, were doing better in the Clinton years. So returning to some fo those fiscal policies sounds much better than what we have now.
Well...that raises the tax rate on the lowest income taxpayers by 50%. It would re-instate the "marriage penalty". Slashes the child tax credit. And of course eliminate the 60%+ of the BTC savings that lower income taxpayers benefitted from. Some of the 47% of the population that currently pays no income tax will get to contribute something. I wonder how the Democratic voting base (well, at least the small portion that actually WORKS) will like that?
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Old 07-10-2012, 02:11 PM
 
5,787 posts, read 4,707,026 times
Reputation: 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimar View Post
I disagree. These are taxes that predominantly effect rich or ultra-rich people. They're not going to send shockwaves through the economy. Obamacare is a tax penalty, which is different from a tax. It's only going to negatively effect a limited number of people.

You really couldn't be more wrong.

Let's say you are a young couple in good health who doesn't really need health insurance at this point in their lives.

The Obamacare government health care plan is going to cost you $12,000 a year.... and if you don't buy it, you will pay a $2000 penalty. The government says it'll subsidize a portion of that which would mean you would still need to come up with $8000 of that $12,000 each year.

It's still cheaper to pay the penalty, but that money goes toward nothing...you get nothing in return.
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