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Old 09-30-2007, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Coming soon to a town near YOU!
989 posts, read 2,757,671 times
Reputation: 1526

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Well, especially with a political campaign that seems to always be raging on, we are always hearing plenty about bad stuff in the US, or of things we either have done or are currently doing that are wrong (our foreign policy, bad schools, record levels of fat-people, etc).

I would like people to chime in with either a credible news-type link (that means no freerepublic or moveon.org stuff) or a personal story about another country, and why we really are not so bad off after-all.

I'll get the ball rolling...

I have a Russian wife, and after speaking to many of her relatives who live in Russia I have found out that in Russia it is common for a woman to get fired when she becomes pregnant. Furthermore, many companies will not hire a woman who appears likely to have kids (that means they'll only hire single, under 30 women). Aren't you Americans glad we left that crap back in the 1950's?
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Old 09-30-2007, 06:17 PM
 
Location: In an illegal immigrant free part of the country.
2,096 posts, read 1,461,763 times
Reputation: 382
Wow you have a real thing going on against fat people don't you. Are you not the one that started a thread on obesity?

Anyway you are wrong about Russia. They are promoting making babies and even telling people to miss work and procreate.

.
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Old 09-30-2007, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Coming soon to a town near YOU!
989 posts, read 2,757,671 times
Reputation: 1526
Quote:
Originally Posted by citigirl View Post
Wow you have a real thing going on against fat people don't you. Are you not the one that started a thread on obesity?

Anyway you are wrong about Russia. They are promoting making babies and even telling people to miss work and procreate.

.
Have you ever been to Russia? I've been twice (A month each time), and are you trying to tell me that two of my wife's cousins and three of her family friends were lying to me when they said they got fired for getting pregnant? Sure the government wants to curtail Russia's negative population trend with incentives similar to our "child tax credit" (and government jobs give women maternity leave in Russia) but Gov't jobs are very rare in Russia so most people work for a private businesses that only care about money and will not hesitate to fire someone that "becomes unproductive".

As someone who lives "in an illegal immigrant free part of the country" you might have a harder time than most understanding that just like illegal immigration, just because something is against the law, that doesn't mean that people will not break that law to make money, or that the law is being enforced in the first place.
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Old 09-30-2007, 07:09 PM
 
Location: In an illegal immigrant free part of the country.
2,096 posts, read 1,461,763 times
Reputation: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evlevo View Post
Have you ever been to Russia? I've been twice (A month each time), and are you trying to tell me that two of my wife's cousins and three of her family friends were lying to me when they said they got fired for getting pregnant? Sure the government wants to curtail Russia's negative population trend with incentives similar to our "child tax credit" (and government jobs give women maternity leave in Russia) but Gov't jobs are very rare in Russia so most people work for a private businesses that only care about money and will not hesitate to fire someone that "becomes unproductive".

As someone who lives "in an illegal immigrant free part of the country" you might have a harder time than most understanding that just like illegal immigration, just because something is against the law, that doesn't mean that people will not break that law to make money, or that the law is being enforced in the first place.
It has been all over the news that Russia is going to great lengths to promote having babies AND I never called you or anyone a liar.
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Old 09-30-2007, 07:24 PM
 
Location: In an illegal immigrant free part of the country.
2,096 posts, read 1,461,763 times
Reputation: 382
Money for Babies (http://english.mn.ru/english/issue.php?2007-1-6 - broken link)

Even for mothers who are having their first child in Russia, consider the benefits. The government pays out 8,000 rubles (about $300) for the birth of each child, and subsidizes four months of paid sick leave at up to about 16,000 rubles ($600) a month, depending on salary. After that, according to a new law, mothers on maternity leave get between 1,500 rubles ($56) and 6,000 ($220) per month (also depending on their average salary) until their child is one and a half.
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Old 09-30-2007, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Small patch of terra firma
1,281 posts, read 2,363,221 times
Reputation: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evlevo View Post
Have you ever been to Russia? .
She's probably never been to Russia and her response completely shows her lack of understanding your issue. You showed that pregnant woman can be fired from their job by employers and she responded with the government is promoting pregnancies. Two entirely different issues but some people have a hard time understanding those details. Call it straw man forum response tourettes. They make a point based on something you never argued. It is a facinating subject.

Last edited by madicarus2000; 09-30-2007 at 08:25 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 09-30-2007, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Coming soon to a town near YOU!
989 posts, read 2,757,671 times
Reputation: 1526
Quote:
Originally Posted by citigirl View Post
Anyway you are wrong about Russia.
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by citigirl View Post
AND I never called you or anyone a liar.
Hmmmmm

Quote:
Originally Posted by citigirl View Post
Money for Babies (http://english.mn.ru/english/issue.php?2007-1-6 - broken link)
Government policy is just that, words on paper; not actions. The Soviet Constitution had as many guarantees of freedom as ours (such as freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion) but it was the enactment of them that made the difference. Do you really think people in Russia trust the government to do anything? Many folks don't trust the US government, and they didn't round up citizens and kill them like Russian Czars or the Soviets did. And what do you think they'll do after the four months maternity pay is up but a mother still has to occasionally amend her work schedule around a sick child/regular doctor visit/1st day of school, etc? How common is it for a mother to never take child related time off after the first 4 months?

Anyway, this is a thread for stories about instances were the US is better off than other countries. If you want to keep arguing about Russia (or even just hafta-hafta-hafta send a response to me) then please send me a DM, or start a new thread. Don't keep running off-topic.
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Old 09-30-2007, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,203 posts, read 27,068,425 times
Reputation: 3946
This was not uncommon in the US in the 50s, 60s, an even 70s.

Russia will catch up!

But, if we do a compare and contrast, we will find the US ain't bad compared to, but by contrast it sure could do better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evlevo View Post
Well, especially with a political campaign that seems to always be raging on, we are always hearing plenty about bad stuff in the US, or of things we either have done or are currently doing that are wrong (our foreign policy, bad schools, record levels of fat-people, etc).

I would like people to chime in with either a credible news-type link (that means no freerepublic or moveon.org stuff) or a personal story about another country, and why we really are not so bad off after-all.

I'll get the ball rolling...

I have a Russian wife, and after speaking to many of her relatives who live in Russia I have found out that in Russia it is common for a woman to get fired when she becomes pregnant. Furthermore, many companies will not hire a woman who appears likely to have kids (that means they'll only hire single, under 30 women). Aren't you Americans glad we left that crap back in the 1950's?
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Old 09-30-2007, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Small patch of terra firma
1,281 posts, read 2,363,221 times
Reputation: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evlevo View Post
I would like people to chime in with either a credible news-type link (that means no freerepublic or moveon.org stuff) or a personal story about another country, and why we really are not so bad off after-all.
Personally I think it is disingenuous to start comparing conditions here to other places. We shouldn’t allow our rights and freedoms to be slowly eroded because “hey, at least we aint in [insert country of choice here]” I prefer to stand up for the principles on which this nation was founded on: government exist on the consent of the people, powers are limited and defined and Rights are broad and expansive, people hold the true power and not government.
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Old 09-30-2007, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Coming soon to a town near YOU!
989 posts, read 2,757,671 times
Reputation: 1526
Quote:
Originally Posted by madicarus2000 View Post
Personally I think it is disingenuous to start comparing conditions here to other places. We shouldn’t allow our rights and freedoms to be slowly eroded because “hey, at least we aint in [insert country of choice here]” I prefer to stand up for the principles on which this nation was founded on: government exist on the consent of the people, powers are limited and defined and Rights are broad and expansive, people hold the true power and not government.
True, but it wasn't meant as a "let's take five from improving, guys" and instead more of a "don't let all the negative crud in the news make you think we are garbage" message. I think the majority of the forum is dedicated towards improving our standing (regardless of political affiliation) which requires the constant discussion of faults, and I want to create a bit of a positive moment were we can basically congratulate each other for getting at least a few things right.
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