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Perhaps you've forgotten all the hostage taking by the Republican party? For instance, last year when the country was approaching the debt ceiling on the budget it had already passed.
Since you claim to be the "darkeconomist" it appears you intentionally with malice aforethought over-looked one minor detail, namely that increasing the debt ceiling would result in the National Debt exceeding Gross Domestic Product.
Increasing the debt-ceiling to a level below the National Debt and not sufferinga credit down-grading as a result......
......is sufficiently distinct from raising the debt-ceiling in excess of the National and sufferinga credit down-grading.
I would hope any intelligent person can recognize the difference. If you don't understand that there is a difference between the two situations, then might I suggest you watch a couple of episodes of Sesame Street.
Amused...
Mircea
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkeconomist
As for taxes:
Take from those numbers what you will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox Terrier
The US became a powerhouse during the periods of highest tax rates.
No wonder we are in decline today.
Prove it, because talk is cheap. Like Geddy say, "Show, don't tell." Show the math. I'll give you three days before I start bumping this thread to embarrass the both of you.
Democrats are making increasingly explicit threats about their willingness to let nearly $600 billion worth of tax hikes and spending cuts take effect in January unless Republicans drop their opposition to higher taxes for the nation’s wealthiest households.
This is a threat? It's pretty much exactly what we have to do. What exactly is the alternative? Tax increases with no cuts?
Screw that. To get the debt under control we are going to have to increase revenue's while making cuts all around.
I say, let's do it.
It'll slam us into a depression. Just looking at the pure numbers, you're looking at an immediate 4% GDP decrease off the bat.
Dems are offering to pass the middle class tax cuts right now but it's the Republicans who are blocking it and trying to hold the middle class hostage unless the rich get a tax cut extension as well. The hard truth is we're going to need a combination of spending cuts and tax increases to balance the budget and the Clinton era tax rates are still historically very low.
The Republicans painted themselves in the corner on this one. They were the ones that insisted on automatic, across-the-board spending cuts. Now, they can eat crow.
I love to see progs make all that noise about hardball. Isn't there some kind of TV show with that title or did that one have to disappear from MSNBC?
So you really think that holding a whole class of people by the throat while trying to force what you want to destroy the economy is nothing but hardball? I feel sorry for you. Maybe you better get back to Kos and MM for today's orders.
Where have you been? The republicans have been doing that. Oh, you just don't like it when the other side does it. Got it!
Anyone who thinks we can get out of this mess just by cutting spending is kidding themselves. Spending cuts AND tax hikes have to occur once we get some level of stabilization in the economy. Eliminating exemptions while equalizing earned income with capital gains rates for the middle class would be a start, but that'll never happen.
Why don't they ever threaten the leaches on Welfare?
It's either the Seniors/Military/Middle Class... you name it.
"They" is a little ambiguous, but I'll assume you mean Democrats given the thread. I've made one assumption to your five. Care to support your argument?
6. Increase of the size of 15 percent rate
bracket for married filers to double that of
unmarried filers (sec. 1(f)(8) and sec. 901
of Pub. L. No. 107-16)
12/31/12
7. Reduced capital gain rates for individuals
(secs. 1(h), 55(b), 57(a)(7), 1445(e)(1),
7518(g)(6)(A) and sec. 303 of Pub. L. No.
108-27)
12/31/12
8. Dividends of individuals taxed at capital
gain rates (secs. 1(h)(11), 163(d)(4)(B),
854(a) and (b), and 857(c) and sec. 303 of
Pub. L. No. 108-27)
12/31/12
9. Ten percent individual income tax rate
(sec. 1(i) and sec. 901 of Pub. L. No. 107-
16)
12/31/12
10. Reduction in other individual income tax
rates: size of 15 percent rate bracket
modified to reflect 10 percent rate, and 28
percent, 31 percent, 36 percent, and 39.6
percent rates are reduced to 25 percent,
28 percent, 33 percent, and 35 percent,
respectively (sec. 1(i)(2) and sec. 901 of
Pub. L. No. 107-16)
12/31/12
11. Dependent care credit: increase of dollar
limit on creditable expenses from $2,400 to
$3,000 ($4,800 to $6,000 for two or more
children), increase of applicable credit
percentage from 30 to 35 percent, increase
of beginning point of phase-out range from
$10,000 to $15,000 (secs. 21(a)(2) and
21(c) and sec. 901 of Pub. L. No. 107-16)
12/31/12
12. Adoption credit and adoption assistance
exclusion: increase to $10,000 for
maximum credit and maximum exclusion,
special needs adoptions deemed to have
$10,000 eligible expenses for purposes of
credit and exclusion, increase the beginning
and ending points of phase-out range for
credit and exclusion, allow the credit
against AMT (secs. 23 and 137 and sec.
901 of Pub. L. No. 107-16)
12/31/12
13. Child credit: increase from $500 to $1,000,
expand eligibility for refundable portion of
the credit, AMT relief, provide that child
credit not treated as income or resources
for purposes of benefit or assistance
programs financed in whole or in part with
Federal funds (secs. 24(a), (b)(3), and (d)
and secs. 203 and 901 of Pub. L.
No. 107-16)
12/31/12
14. American opportunity tax credit (sec.
25A(i))
12/31/12
15. Earned income tax credit (“EITC”):
increase in the beginning point of the
phase-out range for joint returns,
modification of EITC treatment of amounts
not includible in income, repeal of
reduction of EITC for AMT liability,
expansion of math error authority (secs.
32(b)(2), (c)(2)(A)(i), (h), and 6213(g)(2)
and sec. 901 of Pub. L. No. 107-16)
12/31/12
16. Earned income tax credit:
a. Credit percentage of 45 percent for
three or more qualifying children (sec.
32(b)(3)(A))
b. Phaseout threshold for marriage penalty
relief (sec. 32(b)(3)(B))
12/31/12
12/31/12
18. Placed-in-service date for wind facilities
eligible to claim electricity production
credit (sec. 45(d))
12/31/12
19. Credit for production of Indian coal (sec.
45(e)(10)(A)(i))
12/31/12
20. Credit for employer-provided child care
(sec. 45F and sec. 901 of Pub. L. No. 107-
16)
12/31/12
21. Election to claim the energy credit in lieu
of the electricity production credit for wind
facilities (sec. 48(a)(5))
12/31/12
22. Work opportunity tax credit targeted to
hiring qualified veterans (sec. 51(c)(4)(B))
12/31/12
23. Credit for prior year minimum tax liability
made refundable after period of years (sec.
53(e))
12/31/12
24. Increase of the standard deduction for
married filers to double that of unmarried
filers (sec. 63(c)(2)(A) and sec. 901 of Pub.
L. No. 107-16)
12/31/12
25. Repeal of overall limitation on itemized
deductions (the “Pease limitation”) (sec.
68(g) and sec. 901 of Pub. L. No. 107-16)
12/31/12
26. Discharge of indebtedness on principal
residence excluded from gross income of
individuals (sec. 108(a)(1)(E))
12/31/12
28. Employer-provided educational assistance:
expansion to graduate education and
making the exclusion permanent (sec.
127(c)(1) and sec. 901 of Pub. L. No. 107-
16)
12/31/12
29. Tax-exempt bonds for educational
facilities: increase in amount of bonds
qualifying for small-issuer arbitrage rebate
exception, expansion of tax-exempt bond
treatment to public school facilities (secs.
142(a)(13) and (k), 148(f)(4)(D)(vii) and
sec. 901 of Pub. L. No. 107-16)
12/31/12
30. Repeal of the personal exemptions phaseouts
(“PEP”) for high-income taxpayers
(sec. 151(d)(3)(F) and sec. 901 of Pub. L.
No. 107-16)
12/31/12
31. Additional first-year depreciation for 50
percent of basis of qualified property (secs.
168(k)(1) and (2))
12/31/12
32. Election to accelerate AMT credits in lieu
of additional first-year depreciation (sec.
168(k)(4))
12/31/12
33. Special depreciation allowance for
cellulosic biofuel plant property (sec.
168(l))
12/31/12
34. Increase in dollar limitations for expensing
to $125,000/500,000 (indexed) (secs.
179(b)(1) and (2), (c)(2), and (d)(1)(A)(ii))
12/31/12
35. Student loan interest deduction: increase
and indexation for inflation of the phaseout
ranges, repeal of the limit on the
number of months that interest payments
are deductible, repeal of the rule that
voluntary payments of interest are not
deductible (sec. 221 and sec. 901 of Pub. L.
No. 107-16)
12/31/12
36. Repeal of collapsible corporation rules
(sec. 341 and sec. 303 of Pub. L. No. 108-
27)
12/31/12
37. Education Individual Retirement Accounts
(Coverdell education savings accounts):
increase of maximum annual contribution
from $500 to $2,000, expansion of
definition of qualified education expenses,
increase in the size of the phase-out range
for married filers to double that of
unmarried filers, provision of special needs
beneficiary rules, contributions by
corporations and other entities, and
contributions until April 15th, permitted
(secs. 530(b)(1), (b)(2), (b)(4), (c)(1),
(d)(2) and sec. 901 of Pub. L. No. 107-16)
12/31/12
38. Reduced rates under accumulated earnings
tax and personal holding company tax
(secs. 531 and 541 and sec. 901 of Pub. L.
No. 107-16)
12/31/12
39. Modified tax treatment of electing Alaska
Native Settlement Trusts and their
beneficiaries (sec. 646 and sec. 901 of Pub.
L. No. 107-16)
12/31/12
40. Estate, gift, and generation skipping
transfer tax provisions (sec. 901 of Pub. L.
No. 107-16):
a. Reduction in the maximum estate and
gift tax rate to 35 percent (secs. 2001
and 2502)
12/31/12
b. Modifications of estate and gift taxes to
reflect differences in credit resulting
from different tax rates (secs.
2001(b)(2), 2001(g), and 2505(a))
12/31/12
c. Increase in estate and gift tax
exemption to $5 million (indexed for
inflation in years after 2011) (sec.
2010)
12/31/12
d. “Portability” rules permitting a
surviving spouse to use the deceased
spousal unused exclusion amount (sec.
2010(c))
12/31/12
e. Estate tax deduction for State death
taxes paid (secs. 2011, 2053, 2058,
2102, 2106, and 2604)
12/31/12
f. Expansion and clarification of estate
tax conservation easement rules (secs.
2031(c)(2) and (c)(8)(A)(i))
12/31/12
g. Repeal of the qualified family-owned
business deduction (sec. 2057)
12/31/12
h. Modifications to generation-skipping
transfer tax rules regarding deemed
allocations of exemption to certain
transfers in trust, severing of trusts,
valuation, and relief for late elections
(secs. 2632(c) and 2642(a)(3), (b)(1),
and (b)(2)(A))
12/31/12
i. Modifications to estate tax installment
payment rules (secs. 6166(b)(1)(B)(ii),
(b)(1)(C)(ii), (b)(8)(B), (b)(9)(B)(iii)(I),
and (b)(10))
12/31/12
41. Refunds disregarded in the administration
of Federal programs and Federally assisted
programs (sec. 6409)
12/31/12
I'm betting Obama and the democrats don't have the balls to do it. When you mix letting those expire with the scheduled tax increases from Obamacare and the much needed tax increases for SS, Medicare, etc then democrats, not republicans, will be labeled the biggest tax and spend bureaucrats in the history of the planet.
The republicans only run the House. The Senate and the Presidency are democratic and there will be no way they can avoid those facts.
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