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I'm black also and I agree with you %1000, but liberals on here(especially the blacks one) will call you a uncle Tom uppity nig$er who needs to get back in line with the slave masters(democrats)
You are the only one who has done this, so far. What a way to treat your like-minded brethren.
One way to get the poorer people some skills and jobs, is to keep funding their programs, but create assistive government type jobs that would pay them a $1 or $2 per hour extra. Teachers aides, office assistants, janitorial, mechanic, whatever apprentice jobs could be set up. This would help the shrinking government offices, cost less than fully qualified positions, give poorer people on the program a little extra money, work experience, learning skills, etc. I would also set up some basic life skills classes, child care, nutrition, budgeting, etc. Anyone remember Home Ech? Having to take care of an egg to teach you about taking care of a baby? Do they even do that any more?
Most local governments are already stretched to the limit in spending and cannot afford to pay the workers already on the payroll. Cities like Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago, and many more in California and other states are facing crippling budget problems. The mayor of Scranton, PA just reduced the wages for all city employees to minimum wage at $7.25/hour.
Many conservative politicians are trying to shrink government - not expand it even more to accommodate marginally skilled employees. Same situation exists for many urban school districts. Teacher layoffs are prevalent throughout the country. Accordingly, most districts can't afford art class or gym class, let alone home economics classes.
But at least you're thinking of potential solutions.
I appreciate your comment, but I'd like to respond by making the following points:
1) I was not born middle class or given any advantage because of my socio-economic status. To the contrary, I was raised in a lower income neighborhood and my family moved to a working class inner -city neighborhood in my early teen years.
2) My parents were not college educated (at that time one could obtain a decent job out of high school and actual work experience was considered as valuable as a college degree in certain fields). Nonetheless, my parents instilled in me the value of a "quality" education - and they taught me that it was my responsibility to always do my best and to get the most out of my educational experiences. Yes, I was surrounded by other knuckleheads who did not apply themselves or take serious their education. However, my parents did not allow me to falter in school and held me accountable because they wanted the best for me.
3) My parents taught me to respect the law. They said, "You break the law, you go to jail...period. Yes, times are rough out here for black families. And yes, the criminal justice system seems to target young blacks more harshly than other demographics. Even more reason why you better stay your behind off the street corners. Don't give them a reason to target you."
4) I was not the recipient of any quota program during my collegiate or post-graduate studies. I earned my grades (whether good or bad) and I earned the scores I received on my entrance exams, college exams, LSAT, etc. I'm not saying this for any special recognition...heck, that's the way it should be. Moreover, I had to pay my own way through school (in addition to loans) and it took me nearly six years to graduate from undergraduate school.
5) I have encountered racism in many forms from white people at every level of my educational and professional life. I understand that it's very real and is something that impacts America and the black community to some extent.
6) I have "given back" to the black community and tried to draw from my experiences to encourage and inspire young people and adults that success is attainable and should be expected. I've participated in the Upward Bound Program, the Strive Towards Excellence Program, and other similar programs. These programs are helpful, and even essential in some cases...but I've found that there is NO SUBSTITUTE FOR PARENTING.
7) I have also come to conclude that a good portion of the black community does not want to hear anything critical as it applies to them. You asked "what am I doing about it?" Sometimes, it's not about what others can do for you, it's about what you can do for yourself. I think the best thing that I can say to young black kids is to take responsbility for your actions, your education, and your future...because it's yours. Don't make excuses. Don't blame other black people who left the hood. Don't blame the white man. In my experience, however, such messages are often met with resistance or outright hostility.
I, like you, came from very humble beginnings. I grew up in the projects of DC...two doors down from me was a drug-house. My mother used to keep us inside to avoid stepping on a drug needle. My parents wanted me to do well in school, but they never stressed going to college. In my community/family, graduating from high school was considered the end of the line as far as education goes. My father did go back to school in his 30's and is studying for his Masters, but he did not value education (or instill its importance) in me as a child.
Despite that, I wanted more for myself. I've had many pitfalls along the way, but I'm a college graduate and my husband (who is not a college graduate) and I do well. I stress to my children the importance of an education and they realize and recognize that a professional career is what I want for them.
Re: your 7th point, I agree. There is always going to be a subsection of blacks who will be underclass. That is the same with all races. Not everyone is going to see the value in education and/or being a contributing member of society. Many grandparents today were alive during a time when blacks were denied access to higher education. For some, this denial led to blacks not valuing higher education...and let me tell you, when you have parents/grandparents who don't see the value in their *own* education, they sure as hell aren't going to see the value in yours. Some kids, like me, pursue it anyway. Others don't. Sadly, not everyone wants to put in the hard work to be successful. This applies to all races.
I appreciate your comment, but I'd like to respond by making the following points:
1) I was not born middle class or given any advantage because of my socio-economic status. To the contrary, I was raised in a lower income neighborhood and my family moved to a working class inner -city neighborhood in my early teen years.
2) My parents were not college educated (at that time one could obtain a decent job out of high school and actual work experience was considered as valuable as a college degree in certain fields). Nonetheless, my parents instilled in me the value of a "quality" education - and they taught me that it was my responsibility to always do my best and to get the most out of my educational experiences. Yes, I was surrounded by other knuckleheads who did not apply themselves or take serious their education. However, my parents did not allow me to falter in school and held me accountable because they wanted the best for me.
3) My parents taught me to respect the law. They said, "You break the law, you go to jail...period. Yes, times are rough out here for black families. And yes, the criminal justice system seems to target young blacks more harshly than other demographics. Even more reason why you better stay your behind off the street corners. Don't give them a reason to target you."
4) I was not the recipient of any quota program during my collegiate or post-graduate studies. I earned my grades (whether good or bad) and I earned the scores I received on my entrance exams, college exams, LSAT, etc. I'm not saying this for any special recognition...heck, that's the way it should be. Moreover, I had to pay my own way through school (in addition to loans) and it took me nearly six years to graduate from undergraduate school.
5) I have encountered racism in many forms from white people at every level of my educational and professional life. I understand that it's very real and is something that impacts America and the black community to some extent.
6) I have "given back" to the black community and tried to draw from my experiences to encourage and inspire young people and adults that success is attainable and should be expected. I've participated in the Upward Bound Program, the Strive Towards Excellence Program, and other similar programs. These programs are helpful, and even essential in some cases...but I've found that there is NO SUBSTITUTE FOR PARENTING.
7) I have also come to conclude that a good portion of the black community does not want to hear anything critical as it applies to them. You asked "what am I doing about it?" Sometimes, it's not about what others can do for you, it's about what you can do for yourself. I think the best thing that I can say to young black kids is to take responsbility for your actions, your education, and your future...because it's yours. Don't make excuses. Don't blame other black people who left the hood. Don't blame the white man. In my experience, however, such messages are often met with resistance or outright hostility.
Thank you for providing insight into your own background. I applaud you and your family.
My family did the same but that was back in the 1880s and 1890s, so I guess my overall opinion would be that adversity can absolutely be overcome in an era where there are fewer obstacles in one's path than there were when my family did it.
When I asked "What you are doing?" it wasn't solely for the purpose of fingerpointing, it was more of a call-to-action. Even mentoring one child can make the difference and change the course of their life. In the larger picture, lower class Black Americans are lost in the woods like Hansel and Gretel with no breadcrumbs to lead themselves out of the forest. We are beyond the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" stage. It really is important to recognize just how far down that path "we" are.
It will take a monumental shift in the overall mentality of the underclass to be able to propel forward. There is a thread by Edward is which he links to article with beautiful images of pre-Civil Rights era Black America and there is a palpable sense of dignity and proud in the Black people in those photos. Putting everything else aside about life pre-Civil Rights movement, what those people had was a mentality of self respect, hope and aspiration.
There was a greater respect for Black women by Black men and vice versa. Children had a greater respect for their parents, grandparents and other elders. There was a greater respect for one's personal reputation and the reputation of your family. There was a greater attention to presenting a more polished image to the world (men in suits and hats, women in beautiful dresses, stockings, hats and gloves) all for even the most mundane of activities such as sitting on the porch or visiting a neighbor. There was a greater respect for education. My grandmother told me that their segregated school did not have enough books for each study so they would share and make copies (hand written copies) to make certain that each student could learn their lesson.
My family never let us forget how good we really have it and how important it is to have respect and not take our opportunities for granted. This is why I believe that it is so important to talk about the past. If more young people had a respect for the past, they wouldn't squander the opportunities of the present. My forefathers attended college pre-financial aid, pre-Affirmative Action and prior to all schools even allowing Black students to attend their schools. They all had to work, save and take turns putting each sibling through college one-by-one.
The focus of changing the course of the lower class has to be the children because the adults have been almost completely indoctrinated into the cyclical mentality of deprivation. We need to go back to the practice of "each one, teach one" and not become insulated in our comfy homes with our comfy jobs, etc.
Thank you for providing insight into your own background. I applaud you and your family.
My family did the same but that was back in the 1880s and 1890s, so I guess my overall opinion would be that adversity can absolutely be overcome in an era where there are fewer obstacles in one's path than there were when my family did it.
When I asked "What you are doing?" it wasn't solely for the purpose of fingerpointing, it was more of a call-to-action. Even mentoring one child can make the difference and change the course of their life. In the larger picture, lower class Black Americans are lost in the woods like Hansel and Gretel with no breadcrumbs to lead themselves out of the forest. We are beyond the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" stage. It really is important to recognize just how far down that path "we" are.
It will take a monumental shift in the overall mentality of the underclass to be able to propel forward. There is a thread by Edward is which he links to article with beautiful images of pre-Civil Rights era Black America and there is a palpable sense of dignity and proud in the Black people in those photos. Putting everything else aside about life pre-Civil Rights movement, what those people had was a mentality of self respect, hope and aspiration.
There was a greater respect for Black women by Black men and vice versa. Children had a greater respect for their parents, grandparents and other elders. There was a greater respect for one's personal reputation and the reputation of your family. There was a greater attention to presenting a more polished image to the world (men in suits and hats, women in beautiful dresses, stockings, hats and gloves) all for even the most mundane of activities such as sitting on the porch or visiting a neighbor. There was a greater respect for education. My grandmother told me that their segregated school did not have enough books for each study so they would share and make copies (hand written copies) to make certain that each student could learn their lesson.
My family never let us forget how good we really have it and how important it is to have respect and not take our opportunities for granted. This is why I believe that it is so important to talk about the past. If more young people had a respect for the past, they wouldn't squander the opportunities of the present. My forefathers attended college pre-financial aid, pre-Affirmative Action and prior to all schools even allowing Black students to attend their schools. They all had to work, save and take turns putting each sibling through college one-by-one.
The focus of changing the course of the lower class has to be the children because the adults have been almost completely indoctrinated into the cyclical mentality of deprivation. We need to go back to the practice of "each one, teach one" and not become insulated in our comfy homes with our comfy jobs, etc.
I agree with you, 1000%, calipoppy. One sad state of affairs is when black people "make it" and then they turn their backs on those less fortunate. We no longer consider it a problem that concerns us and we take a "Why don't you help yourself?" attitude instead of a "What can I do to help you?" attitude. It really is quite sad, but honestly, there are many examples of disharmony in the black community (past and present) that disheartens me.
As I am typing this post, I am well aware that I will probably get blasted for what I am going to say. I don't care. The following thoughts result from years of frustration over the deterioration that I have observed within the "Black community." As a black man, I don't consider myself overly preoccupied with racial matters - however, I am as are most Americans, race conscious to some extent or another. So, please allow me to explain the reason for my rant today...
Earlier this week I was listening to a segment on NPR covering the topic of whether recent legislation passed or proposed in several states amounted to a concerted effort designed to disenfranchise black voters. Specifically, the opponents pointed to laws that placed voting restrictions on convicted felons as well as laws requiring photo identification when casting a ballot, claiming that such laws unfairly target black voters. The rationale is steeped in the unfortunate reality that an alarming proportion of the black population consists of felons and the contention that some blacks are simply too poor to afford a valid picture ID.
Let's assume for the purpose of this discussion that the aforementioned laws are in fact racially motivated. My response is...so what if they are? Liberals and black race-baiters (we know who they are) would rather direct their anger and frustration at these so-called racist laws in lieu of addressing the underlying issues that cause these laws to adversely impact the black community in a disproportionate manner.
The message should not be "change these laws because felons are more often black." Rather, the message should be to black people "stop commiting felonies!" If you betray the trust of your community and cannot respect the laws/standards put in place by your government, then you relinquish your right to influence the law and government by voting. Seems reasonable to me. Please spare me the excuses as to why the hoodlum decided to rob the liquor store, break in someone's home, steal the car, assault someone, or sell poisonous drugs to children in his community. Yes, there are institutional mechanisms in place that make life a bit more challenging in urban communities. But the cold fact is that it doesn't excuse violent and other criminal behavior. It is past time that the black community stop making excuses for its plight and be accountable. From my perspective, the black community is its own worst enemy and has caused itself much more harm than any laws or institutional mechanism
As for the picture ID requirement, the opponents claims that this amounts to a poll tax because picture IDs cost money (typically a nominal fee). If it is a tax, then it's a tax that all people in that state would have to pay...not just blacks. C'mon people, we need valid identification to cash a check, to board a plane, to gain entrance into a government building, to drive a car, to take ACT/SAT exam, etc. Is it really asking too much to require voters to verify their identity by presenting valid photo identification? Again, some say that some people are very poor and cannot afford to obtain a photo identification - and these individuals should not be excluded from exercising their American right to vote. I call BS on this. Yes, there may be tiny percentage of the black population that cannot scrounge up between $10 and $25 to pay for a state ID. But I see these "poor" people everyday when I'm fueling up at the gas station. They seem to have enough money to buy cigarettes and lottery scratch-off tickets on a daily basis. I'm betting that 98% of them can sacrifice the money necessary to purchase a state ID.
Now, in fairness, there are a number of elderly persons or disabled persons on fixed incomes (social security, SSI) who have to choose between buying groceries and paying for medication. These individuals (whether black, white, or otherwise) probably cannot afford to purchase an ID. But the irony is that in order to draw a fixed income from Social Security or obtain subsidy housing, they had to provide valid identification at some point.
I could rant on 50 other issues that burn me, but I won't today. Suffice it to say that I'm tired of the way the black community has embraced or made excuses for its mediocrity. And now, many want lawmakers to accommodate this mediocrity as well. Damn shame...smh
Apparently you have rile up the conservatives on this forum. Let's me ask you this question. If you have been convicted of a crime (guilty or not) and did your time and have been on the straight and narrow ever since, why should you be restricted from voting? You have paid your dues and have become a tax paying citizen why can't you vote? Here is a hint, many of our so-called elected officals were lawyers or judges (who are elected btw). How often does the average person attend court proceedings, hearings ect? Not many. Now lets look at the people who had gone through the court system and they (besides the court officals) are the only people that actually KNOW just how crooked these people are. So if you prohibit those 5 million or so ex-cons and parolees from voting the really crooked ones have a good chance of being elected to higher positions with none the wiser.
Now lets look at the majority of people who are doing or have done jail time, they are overwhelmingly poor, and uneducated minorities who more than likely would vote democrat (I say this since many of the most bias laws are pushed by republicans).
Your concern about voter ID laws is interesting considering that you have not researched this matter any closer. I guess that it did not occur to you that the states that are pushing for strict voter ID laws are mostly run by republican governors, hmmm now why is that if there is such a probelm with voter fraud? Is it perhaps that as it is mentioned earlier that the majority of democratic voters are college age students, minorities and the working class and poor. I agree a simple picture id should not be a probelm except when they make stipulations on what type of ID it is, and there lies the probelm. Some states do not allow college id's but will accept a hunter's license (Texas). Most elderly do not drive but have other forms of ID and their medicare card with the SS numbers on it why can't that be used?
Your post is very well written and touches on a hot button issue. It does remind me of a speech that Bill Cosby once made that was soundly castigated by the black community some years ago.
But, in reality I must put some facts into this very interesting thread to provide a basis for discussion.
Note that only 4 states have actually passed "Strict Photo ID" laws, all of them heavily republican dominated administrations. Another 5 have passed photo ID requirements and these too are republican dominated administrations.
Any way you cut the cheese, this is a republican ploy to minimize the democratic voting block in the respective states and is really a non issue as far as preventing voter fraud. Nobody from any side of the arguement can point out a valid case of rampant voter fraud in the last 50 years in any voting districts that will be cured by photo ID.
Personally, I would have preferred that you present your case as a conservative republican rather than as a black, as the photo ID issue is not a racial issue and really has no place in a discussion concerning the failings of the black race. But then again, that's just me.
For those saying in an earlier post that 30 states have already passed photo ID laws here is the actual truth in an unbiased link.
Your post is very well written and touches on a hot button issue. It does remind me of a speech that Bill Cosby once made that was soundly castigated by the black community some years ago.
But, in reality I must put some facts into this very interesting thread to provide a basis for discussion.
Note that only 4 states have actually passed "Strict Photo ID" laws, all of them heavily republican dominated administrations. Another 5 have passed photo ID requirements and these too are republican dominated administrations.
Any way you cut the cheese, this is a republican ploy to minimize the democratic voting block in the respective states and is really a non issue as far as preventing voter fraud. Nobody from any side of the arguement can point out a valid case of rampant voter fraud in the last 50 years in any voting districts that will be cured by photo ID.
For those saying in an earlier post that 30 states have already passed photo ID laws here is the actual truth in an unbiased link.
Can you provide evidence of the black community who were upset about Cosby's statements? You say black community as if all black people were against what Bill Cosby said. Perhaps you meant to say that the Black underclass had a problem with it?....
In what specifc way are Democratic voters targeted by voter id laws. What is that identifies a Democratic voter, from a Republican voter, and then prescribes a way to target and as you state restrict their vote?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx
FYI, the restrictive voting laws being put into place by individual states generally targets democratic voters, rather than just blacks as you proclaim. Seniors in these states are much more impacted than blacks.
Can you provide evidence of the black community who were upset about Cosby's statements? You say black community as if all black people were against what Bill Cosby said. Perhaps you meant to say that the Black underclass had a problem with it?....
I do remember many articles from black pundits calling for BC's head for being an Uncle Tom, etc. Hopefully, your computer is up to date enough that you have google installed.
Look, I'm not in disagreement with any of the main points of the OP's or yours or anybody's post's in this thread with the exception of the usual racist suspects. My only point is that the failings of the black community's underclass is not related in any way to the Republican agenda of requiring photo ID to vote. These are really two seperate and distinct issues. You want to discuss the failings of the black underclass then start another of the many hundreds of threads on this issue that have already run their course on CD. You want to discuss the pros and cons of the Photo ID laws being passed by individual states then a thread dedicated to that issue will have my willing participation. Neither one is even remotely related, IMO.
No arguements here and I don't want to offend or get in a pi$$ing match with anyone.
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I'm black also and I agree with you %1000, but liberals on here(especially the blacks one) will call you a uncle Tom uppity nig$er who needs to get back in line with the slave masters(democrats)
