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Can someone tell me how you can have 24 counts of murder with 12 dead people, and 116 counts of attempted murder with 58 wounded? Are they charging him with two separate crimes per victim, a lesser charge and a stronger charge for each?
I have no idea how they are figuring that. Seems bizzare to me on the murder count. I do wonder if they are using a round count from the crime scene, autopsies, and the injured, for the 116 figure on attempted murder.
Are you guys now trying to say this guy scored 80-90 hits?
He didn't! A majority of the injuries where inflicted upon oneself and each other in the panic to get out.
A lot of the actual shooting victims that weren't critically wounded sufferedinor flesh wounds from the shot and shrapnel.
There were relatively few solid hits...most of those resulted in casualties.
Why would you say this? Why? There are absolutely no reports that support your statements here. Your comments ignore the reality of the number of people being hit in the extremities, and there is a distinction between kill shots and hits. Someone can take multiple hits that do not kill them, and just one that does.
The number of "hits" is of course an estimate, as I've seen no actual wound count from the dead and surviving victims. I heard the "80-90" hit count in comments from one LE conversation remarking on the "hit rate", characterizing it as that of a weapons trained individual. And since there is no one to one relationship between number of victims and number of hits, due to some victims having multiple gunshot wounds, 80 hits is not exactly an outrageous estimate when you have 70 victims, several of whom (survivors) suffered multiple wounds, which leads me to believe that the dead may have suffered multiple wounds as well.
According to one report from an attending physician:
"Today is the day that there's going to be some realization that there (are) going to be some serious long-term issues that people are going to have to deal with," Bob Snyder, a trauma surgeon at the Medical Center of Aurora, told reporters.
"Some of the injuries that we're dealing with and the patients are dealing with right now are going to be permanent."
The wounds being treated include those to the head, chest, stomach, as well as to the arms and legs. It "pretty much runs the gamut of multiple gunshots," Snyder said.
i have no idea how they are figuring that. Seems bizzare to me on the murder count. I do wonder if they are using a round count from the crime scene, autopsies, and the injured, for the 116 figure on attempted murder.
In the "complaint and information" that is now posted online, Holmes is charged with two crimes for each victim:
— For those who were killed, he's charged with intentionally causing their deaths and with "extreme indifference to the value of human life generally" in causing their deaths.
— For those who were injured, he's charged with attempted murder and with "extreme indifference to the value of human life generally" in committing that crime against them.
Bureaucracy amazes me in it's simplistic ignorance, and penchant for mystifying the obvious.
Murder and attempted murder would seem to naturally demonstrate an "extreme indifference to the value of human life" by it's very nature, without further definition. I'm not sure how one could kill and wound people and not demonstrate extreme indifference?
"waltz into that dark movie theatre, wearing a gas mask and register 80, 90, 100 hits in a couple or three minutes with people ducking and diving under their seats and running for their lives"
Another excellent point. It aint easy to shoot with a gas mask on and to be able to get as many accurate shots off while wearing a mask is not something a drugged up crazy person who hasn't been trained in weapons could easily do at all. As a matter of fact it would be close to impossible. Not to mention the apartment rigged with explosives so complex it took the FBI two days to diffuse em all.
So it is reported- but we never actually saw much of the inside of the apartment even though video and photos were taken. At least I haven't seen them and I admit I am not glued to the tabloid news but I do channel surf through it pretty much every day and I think manage to catch most of the 20 minute loops that run over and over again.
The point is that I do not know WHAT was inside that apartment. I heard and "saw" a little cap blast blow a a piece of vertical blind out the window without even detaching it. I saw men looking in a window. I saw the pristine outside of a brick building. I saw men and women inside windows, I saw people carrying various objects such as paper bags, a computer, perhaps a DVD player, but no gas cans.
News stories are told and we "believe" while our imaginations fill in the details. Bottom line, we have no way of knowing whether or not that apartment was rigged with explosives and this type of "filling in the blanks" is what we have to be aware of when watching the "news".
For example what do we really see in the photos and videos that looks like an apartment rigged with explosives, gas cans, grenades, etc?:
Remember that we often see "file footage" behind news stories that is not from the actual event. Talking about something medical? Bring out the generic needles and jabs into disembodied arms or show piles of pretty pills being scooped into bottles.
We have reporters in front of green screens. We sometimes have reporters "live" that are actually in a studio with essentially a video or still shot behind them depicting the "live location"- complete with fans to blow the hairdo around a little if it's an outdoor "live" location. And we have "partial" coverage stories, such as this one, where our imaginations fill in the blanks. Were there really explosives in this case- or was it a staged "event"?
The reason I say yes is that the details are the same. Look at the eyebrows. Look at the ears and their shape. Look at the bridge of the nose and the separation between the eyes. The eyelids. The Adam's apple is another perfect match. The overall look is different and that will have conspiracy theorists jumping for joy but when you study the details and overlay them, it comes out the same person.
The guy with the orange hair has a skinnier nose - notice the flare of the nostrils in the middle picture that is absent from the last one.
The lips are also larger on the orange haired dude.
Unless the guy had cosmetic surgery to shrink his nose and puff up his lips, I just can't see a resemblance between the two.
(My nostrils do not change shape when I make different facial expressions. I tried it. )
And could it be possible that Carrot Top was just very mentally ill, schizophrenic? You guys have been saying that the gear he was wearing was cheap and not really effective body armor, so maybe he was just wearing a "costume" to fit his delusions of grandeur and/or hallucinations?
I'm going to have to address the rest of your post, paragraph by paragraph, gradually. I'm not saying you're wrong about everything you wrote. I just disagree with you about many of those things. I, for example, do not believe Kennedy was killed by a "lone gunman." And I don't believe that our government took down the WTC. My work has given me the opportunity to see lots of corruption and how politics influences many events that the general public doesn't get to see and would think would never happen.
p.s. Have you considered the story of John Nash and the effects schizophrenia on his life? How he lived a secret life inside that schizophrenia which no one detected for years? Maybe Carrot Top took LSD on his own which led to his acting out the delusions of grandeur in the theater.
Absent of other inconsistencies in the story, that might be quite plausible. However, you cannot ignore the other issues, while rationalizing each element separately. You have to consider all pieces in context.
Example ... were there no evidence of Holmes involvement with a psychiatrist, then the possibility of self medicating might make perfect sense. But, the introduction of a psychiatrist being involved with Holmes in some capacity, and the fact that this particular doctor had already been cited by the medical board for misconduct in prescribing psychotropic drugs, including to herself and family members, changes the entire picture!
This doesn't require more in-depth understanding of the world of psychiatry, but some knowledge in that area provides tremendous support for greater suspicions of wrong doing.
Some of those murder charges above the actual number of dead were for "extreme indifference homicide, for shooting into a crowded theater." Apparently, there's a law to cover that. How sad.
GunsNTexas: you might want to quit singing the song about the package being delivered to the college six days before the shooting. That story was was proven incorrect a few days ago. Fox news got it wrong from their anonymous source. It as delivered the Monday after the shooting and turned over to the police within an hour of its arrival on campus, then college was shut down for a few hours while they checked the package for bombs.
So it is reported- but we never actually saw much of the inside of the apartment even though video and photos were taken. At least I haven't seen them and I admit I am not glued to the tabloid news but I do channel surf through it pretty much every day and I think manage to catch most of the 20 minute loops that run over and over again.
The point is that I do not know WHAT was inside that apartment. I heard and "saw" a little cap blast blow a a piece of vertical blind out the window without even detaching it. I saw men looking in a window. I saw the pristine outside of a brick building. I saw men and women inside windows, I saw people carrying various objects such as paper bags, a computer, perhaps a DVD player, but no gas cans.
News stories are told and we "believe" while our imaginations fill in the details. Bottom line, we have no way of knowing whether or not that apartment was rigged with explosives and this type of "filling in the blanks" is what we have to be aware of when watching the "news".
For example what do we really see in the photos and videos that looks like an apartment rigged with explosives, gas cans, grenades, etc?:
Remember that we often see "file footage" behind news stories that is not from the actual event. Talking about something medical? Bring out the generic needles and jabs into disembodied arms or show piles of pretty pills being scooped into bottles.
We have reporters in front of green screens. We sometimes have reporters "live" that are actually in a studio with essentially a video or still shot behind them depicting the "live location"- complete with fans to blow the hairdo around a little if it's an outdoor "live" location. And we have "partial" coverage stories, such as this one, where our imaginations fill in the blanks. Were there really explosives in this case- or was it a staged "event"?
Yeah plenty of broken glass and a couple PC's seen coming out. They did manage to get that "soldier of misfortue" poster or whateve that was in a few shots. And an unnamed source like usual and a guy from Dateline allowed a peek inside. Hell we don't even know if there were even any bombs in there. Maybe the official story we see five years from now there never were any. Kinda like OKC and the two other bombs that magically disappeared.
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