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Old 07-21-2012, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,889,092 times
Reputation: 11259

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
(patiently)
As you see, some people will fight tooth an nail against the most basic idea of the American nation - the idea that citizens are sovereign. The idea that citizens are responsible for their own fate, not government.

Some people cannot stand that idea. In heir world, government MUST be supreme, MUST have control over the citizens. To them, citizens cannot be trusted with their own choices.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

It is these unalienable rights that the Constitution was designed to protect. I must confess not originally for everyone.
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:55 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,358 posts, read 26,495,840 times
Reputation: 11351
Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
In 1776 the deadliest available firearm was a single shot musket that took a minute to reload. Do you think they wanted 100 shots a minute assault rifles available on every corner to everyone age 18 or older?
False. There were heavy guns that fired multiple shots all at once, with the same effect as a machinegun in deadliness against crowds. There were then the duckfoot type pistols for a more portable version. During the Revolution the British used some rapid reloading breechloading rifles called the Ferguson rifle. There were repeating arms. Some of the founders lived to see a person I'm closely related to invent a 12 shot flintlock rifle.

Then there were the airguns in large calibers that were rapid repeaters. Lewis and Clark carried one such weapon to intimidate the Natives. They seem little known today but were widely used to great effect in battles at that time and when fully pumped up were as deadly as a firearm.
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Old 07-21-2012, 10:49 PM
 
Location: AL
2,476 posts, read 2,603,883 times
Reputation: 1015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Without the Second Amendment - your right to free speech is worthless.

100% correct!
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Old 07-22-2012, 05:12 AM
 
2,836 posts, read 3,496,025 times
Reputation: 1406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
(patiently) The citizens can change the law.

Who, again, is sovereign?

As you see, some people will fight tooth an nail against the most basic idea of the American nation - the idea that citizens are sovereign. The idea that citizens are responsible for their own fate, not government.

Some people cannot stand that idea. In heir world, government MUST be supreme, MUST have control over the citizens. To them, citizens cannot be trusted with their own choices.

That is not correct. Citizens do not make the law, their elected representatives to Congress and state legislature make the law, except where allowed by public referendum. Citizens may not take the law into their own hands. In the United States, a citizen lives under the rule of law, and not by mob rule.
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Old 07-22-2012, 07:16 AM
 
12,436 posts, read 11,948,683 times
Reputation: 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nayabone View Post
It is an unwritten law that goes way back to when Canada was ruled by the Queen. It briefly states than canooks shall not interfere in other countries politics..
If you want to pi$$ of the Queen, go for it... She doesn't support communism, so tread lightly... She knows obama for exactly what he is, and has zero use for such corruption... I'm glad that you asked...
My vote for the most idiotic post of the week.
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Old 07-22-2012, 07:43 AM
 
2,836 posts, read 3,496,025 times
Reputation: 1406
The self-styled "sovereign citizens" are fringe dissidents (like the author of this thread), who think they are above the law. Thus far, they have not been successful in their unsupported claims. See '"Sovereign Citizens": Fringe in the Courtroom' by Leslie R. Masterson, American Bankruptcy Institute Journal, Vol. XXX, No. 2 (March 2011) at :
http://journal.abi.org/sites/default...y/feature1.pdf
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Old 07-22-2012, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Lost in Texas
9,827 posts, read 6,936,232 times
Reputation: 3416
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomexico View Post
There will be many people, including Constitutional scholars, who will disagree with you.
The Supreme court has repeatedly agreed with him and they are the only "Constitutional scholars" that matter in the issue. Excellent thread and excellent read.
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Old 07-22-2012, 07:56 AM
 
Location: New Hampshire
4,866 posts, read 5,678,521 times
Reputation: 3786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell Phillips View Post
No. The Constitution established the United States as a nation of laws, and not men. It is the recognition that no person can be above the law, for it is not the citizen that is sovereign, it is the law.

LOL... Politicians and illegal aliens seem to be above the law.

Try again.
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Old 07-22-2012, 07:59 AM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,048,770 times
Reputation: 15038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Without the Second Amendment - your right to free speech is worthless.
Name one instance in the long history of the U.S. where arms were used to protect the first a person's right to free speech.
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Old 07-22-2012, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Lost in Texas
9,827 posts, read 6,936,232 times
Reputation: 3416
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Name one instance in the long history of the U.S. where arms were used to protect the first a person's right to free speech.
You're right.....To date there has never been such an example that I am aware of. Could it be because we have the right to firearms that there hasn't been the need? Only time will tell.
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