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for a title of a thread to say that 75% of all workers near retirement age(meaning have worked and saved for AT LEAST 20 years) have less than 30k saved...I call malarky
You're injecting the meaning without regard to what the words actually say. The reality is that people who aren't making a high salary have to pay the bills. If there wasn't such a big disconnect between compensation and expenses, your point might have merit. While there are some people who simply spend foolishly, there are many people who spend conscientiously, and still have no money left over to save. No matter how much some people want to deny it. To callously besmirch 75% of Americans in the manner you did is indefensible.
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Originally Posted by hnsq
If a person doesn't have the self-discipline to save for retirement, then they should work into old age and not retire.
Often it has nothing to do with discipline. It has to do with structural inadequacies in our economy.
We learned something rather interesting this past week about my spouse's 401(k) plan. They vest 0% of the company match for the first two years. And the company is a contract house; most of their employees cycle in and out of the company within a year, eighteen months at the max.
My own employer has not elected to provide a company match, despite calling the plan a "profit sharing plan". They also have elected to allow the plan to be directed toward the highest ER funds possible, while still remaining ERISA compliant, so that the custodian charges them the lowest administration fee.
mcdonalds...offers 401k, with matching (one of the most generous employeers out there as far as matching)
pizza hut...not only a 401k but also a profit sharing plan
little caesars...401k
dominoes...not only a 401k, but also profit sharing
walmart...401k and profit sharing
Participation rate is a measure of, among other things, how much employees have to spend, based on how much the companies pay. So: What is the participation rate for each of these companies? It's hard to say, because so many of these company hide their lower-compensated employees in subsidiaries. McDonald's Corporation, for example, has a 45% participation rate, but one of its largest franchisees is in the bottom 15% for participation. [Source: Britescope.] The disparity tells the tale.
mcdonalds...offers 401k, with matching (one of the most generous employeers out there as far as matching)
pizza hut...not only a 401k but also a profit sharing plan
little caesars...401k
dominoes...not only a 401k, but also profit sharing
walmart...401k and profit sharing
almost all companies out there offer some type of 401k.....my local deli offers its people a 401k
The relevant question is, did these companies offer 401k in 1980? Because that's when I worked for them. And what about franchisees, did they offer the same benefits as the parent corporation? In most cases I worked for franchisees, not the corporation.
The relevant question is, did these companies offer 401k in 1980? Because that's when I worked for them. And what about franchisees, did they offer the same benefits as the parent corporation? In most cases I worked for franchisees, not the corporation.
oh so no you move the goal posts
you said you work for them...am I to read your mind that it was 1980 (back when those bery same companies offered PENSIONS)
1980 was 33 years ago , bub...and some did offer contribution plans back then...thats 33 years of savings...even at $20 a week that would be how much??? hhmmm 33 years is how many weeks???hmmm 1716 weeks...times $20 is what??? hmmmm nearly 35k...
so if you had saved only $20 a week (less than the cost of a carton of cigs) you would have had at least 35k...
Often it has nothing to do with discipline. It has to do with structural inadequacies in our economy.
It has everything to do with discipline. If you gave people back the money that is currently withheld from their paychecks for SS, it would take nothing BUT discipline to save it every month.
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Originally Posted by freemkt
How much do you expect someone with student loan debt and a minimum wage job to save for retirement?
I would expect someone who went to college and has student loans to make more than minimum wage. I would expect someone who works only 28 hours/week (as you have said you do) to study at night to find a better job (which you have said you do not), would expect them to consider moving somewhere else where there is better work (which you have said you will not) and would expect them to consider taking a second job (which you have said you will not).
If you gave people back the money that is currently withheld from their paychecks for SS, it would take nothing BUT discipline to save it every month.
Even then it would take far more than just discipline.
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Originally Posted by hnsq
I would expect someone who went to college and has student loans to make more than minimum wage.
Too bad society doesn't feel the same as you claim to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
I would expect someone who works only 28 hours/week (as you have said you do)
I haven't said anything about how much I work. I'm irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
to study at night to find a better job (which you have said you do not),
Again, I'm irrelevant. Regardless, spending money to study at night to find a better job is no longer guaranteed to be a good investment. I wouldn't be surprised if some research looking back at the 2010s reveals that a college education was a bad financial investment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
would expect them to consider moving somewhere else where there is better work (which you have said you will not)
Yet again, I'm irrelevant. But expecting other people to up and leave where they have roots, where they may have people they can lean on for at least moral support in tough times, is offensive. Your idea would seem to create a permanent underclass of Americans, migrants, scraping by from place to place to try to find a little bit of work, a few scraps falling from the table of their "betters". It's offensive to suggest that society should regress back to how it was after the Great Depression.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
and would expect them to consider taking a second job (which you have said you will not).
For the last time, I'm irrelevant. I've never said anything about my own situation. I'm advocating for others, not for myself. Geez, get a grip!
Hnsg and his cohort expect everyone to arrange their life around making ever more money. He cannot understand why many of us chose not to live that way. Not all of us worship Mammon.
Where does a disciplined risk adverse person save his money at a higher rate than inflation? Just putting your money in an insured savings account does not yield any effective compound interest gains due to the devaluation due to inflation. What about the people that invested their 401 savings into the stock market as they were supposed to and lost much of the gain in the inevitable collapse? How are they compensated for being good little savers?
The lack of individual savings in this country is the result of economic policy not lack of disciplined savers.
Even then it would take far more than just discipline.
Too bad society doesn't feel the same as you claim to.
It absolutely is discipline! If right now $100/mo is deducted from your paycheck to go towards SS and suddenly SS goes away and you are paid $100/mo more, it takes nothing but a little self-discipline to invest that $100 instead of blowing it on something.
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I haven't said anything about how much I work. I'm irrelevant.
Again, I'm irrelevant. Regardless, spending money to study at night to find a better job is no longer guaranteed to be a good investment. I wouldn't be surprised if some research looking back at the 2010s reveals that a college education was a bad financial investment.
Yet again, I'm irrelevant. But expecting other people to up and leave where they have roots, where they may have people they can lean on for at least moral support in tough times, is offensive. Your idea would seem to create a permanent underclass of Americans, migrants, scraping by from place to place to try to find a little bit of work, a few scraps falling from the table of their "betters". It's offensive to suggest that society should regress back to how it was after the Great Depression.
For the last time, I'm irrelevant. I've never said anything about my own situation. I'm advocating for others, not for myself. Geez, get a grip!
Wake up. Things have changed.
Please actually take time to read before responding in the future. What I bolded above was not directed at you. Did you actually check who I was responding to before going off on that rant??
Hnsg and his cohort expect everyone to arrange their life around making ever more money. He cannot understand why many of us chose not to live that way. Not all of us worship Mammon.
Unlike you who arranges his life around being so greedy that you want to take money from the wealthy so that you have more without working?
Talk about 'worshiping mammon', and talk about selfish. Greg - you show one of the most greedy, selfish attitudes of anyone on this forum. You want all the benefits of an easy life, but you want it by taxing those who actually put in the long hours to make it on their own. You 'worship mammon' more than I ever will.
And please stop referring to 'mammon', as it makes you seem like you sit at home wearing a tinfoil hat...
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Where does a disciplined risk adverse person save his money at a higher rate than inflation? Just putting your money in an insured savings account does not yield any effective compound interest gains due to the devaluation due to inflation. What about the people that invested their 401 savings into the stock market as they were supposed to and lost much of the gain in the inevitable collapse? How are they compensated for being good little savers?
Who in their right mind uses a savings account to grow money? If a person put the same amount of money in the stock market as was put into social security over their working career and retired the DAY AFTER the market crashed in 2008, their stock market investments would still have gained over 4x what they would have in social security. Do you ever actually do the math to see if what you say makes a bit of sense?
Quote:
The lack of individual savings in this country is the result of economic policy not lack of disciplined savers.
It absolutely is a lack of discipline. The average size of a home for the middle class has increased by 240% over the last 60 years. The number of cars owned by the middle class has doubled in the last 50 years, and the amount of money spent on entertainment as a % of income has tripled since 1950.
The middle class has made the choice to live it up instead of saving any extra money.
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It's offensive to suggest that society should regress back to how it was after the Great Depression.
