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I am pro-choice as long as it is before 22 weeks, when children have survived outside of the womb, but there is a part of your argument I take umbrage with. She doesn't have to live with the child if she gives birth to it. Adoption is still an option. I don't know why that is somehow considered worse than abortion by some people.
Is there any warranty that comes with a mother committing to putting her baby moses in a basket on the river?
PP is prohibited by virtue of it's mission statement to steer a decision in any direction, it's getting blamed for the direction of 3%. What would be nice is if all options had follow through referrals- such as a master list of pre qualified adoption agencies, who in turn had a master list of pre screened aspiring parents. Success story: Steve Jobs biological mother was unfortunate to be able to retain custody of him (fiscal reasons), but very fortunate to find exceptional adoptive parents for him, which made his own success possible. Most would be mothers are not as fortunate. Adoption agencies have been used as fronts for brainwashing cults and human/ sex trafficking schemes. Freedom of religion is also a license for freedom of cults to spiritually abuse humanity at large. An evolution of legal thinking upheld that children have any rights whatsoever. Right to work movement is the regular nemesis of children's rights pitting economic forces against one another (crabs in a barrel tactics) for private gain. Children's rights movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Adoption is a less attractive option to many for reasons that have to do with the various degrees of abuse and neglect taking place in orphanages, adoption agencies and the foster care system. Screening out worst candidate parents is very difficult to accomplish and once an adoption goes into a case closed file, there is little to no oversight as any other parent who never had legal entanglements. Our own weakness and limitations as a civilization neglecting the full comprehension of mental illness is what's fueling the general dysfunction for centuries. That's how this nightmare happened... Joel Steinberg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And this... The Campaign to Rescue & Restore Victims of Human Trafficking: About Human Trafficking
The more social and legal policies attempt to herd women and children into institutionalized boxes as chattel, the more those boxes become preyed upon by malevolent & nefarious individuals. So policy can herd them and run them off a cliff, or run them into the pedophile chute, or run them into slave labor camp chutes, or Joseph Kony's child army, or whatever chute social policy gets tricked into supporting. Common theme in all these scenarios is authority abused in confidence schemes posing as legitimate government & religious function. None of which has anything to do with the human rights or best interest of the child, or with the unconditional bonding needful to ensure a child will have a chance to thrive.
All of the above defies left brain absolutist thinking convinced they can shove tigers around raising them in captivity without killing the species. They harmed the maternal bond, and they did kill/ bottleneck a species. They're doing it in our own species using social engineering religious, economic & legal justifications. Utopic forced eugenics was the byproduct of social engineering supported by religious institutions, as were child labor camps supported by religious institutions justified by materialist priorities. They blame atheists, but it was myopic religious doctrine abused to blame.
Cults blame Margret Sanger for what they, and other individuals, took liberty to abuse. It's akin to blaming the Bible for the behavior of Jim Jones, or a plethora of rogue Popes unworthy of the authority vested in them. Preserving the right of individuals to reject corrupt authority is vital to the integrity and wellbeing of all at every level of society, no matter their creed, gender, orientation, or whatever other categories concocted for the purpose of justifying one groups willful abuse/ neglect of another group.
Execution for rape is harsh. As bad as rape is, it's not as bad as killing somebody, so I'd say it's an excessive punishment. Even life in prison is probably too harsh unless they're raped a lot of people or the crime was exceptionally brutal in nature.
14th century England made it the victims prerogative to mete out punishment to her rapist.
A longer history than just merry old England: Eunuch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This lady has a compelling case. Bravo to that Hindu woman.
Of 104 people who were operated on between 1970 and 80, only 3% have reoffended, compared to 46% of the 53 others who refused castration or who did not secure expert approval for the operation.
Germany is the only country in the world who has found a highly effective means of shutting down recidivism in the most humane possible way. South Korea has recently sentenced a serial child rapist to chemical castration. BBC News - South Korea introduces 'chemical castration' for paedophiles
Once you violate the human rights of another, you divorce humanity, and you accept the consequences of having your own human rights jeopardized by whatever means necessary to achieve cease and desist. No sympathy from me.
This is a vast improvement over creating eunuchs to service tribal agendas and/ or "Dead Men Don't Rape". It's factually true that dead men don't rape. 100% efficacy. Because the victims taxes being obliged to house a prisoner at the tune of $50k annually who has renounced civilization is a perpetuation of rape in another form. Prison rapes (male and female populations alike) are believed to have a higher frequency than in the whole of free society. We are all in effect bankrolling a lifestyle choice in an institution obliged to rehabilitate. Compelling rape victims to additionally, and involuntarily, accept the commitment of cultivating, providing for and defending the genetic material of a criminal is beyond the pale foul. If you really want to delude yourself that sexual abusers are the byproduct of failed nurture, you would be obliged to explain the full spectrum of co-morbidity associated with these individuals. How many women are in prison today for the crime of defending themselves because it's socially unacceptable to do so? How reasonable is it to enshrine half of the species right to inflict themselves on all others and demand purist pacifism out of the other half of the species?
Serial Rapist Stopped
When you fail to shut them down in their tracks it only emboldens them. The rest of us do not care to pay the price for your naivete, or for the vestiges of your own sexist attitudes effectively hobbling your entire gender through legislative policies & judicial decisions prohibiting any and all forms of feminine self defense. This is in many ways a second amendment right (AKA responsibility) issue that too many are intellectually stuck on obsessions with fire arms to comprehend.
Implying that abortion is an act of vengeance or punishment inflicted upon a fetus is patently absurd. It's a vote of no confidence in every adult in her life. A vote of no confidence in her partner, family, community, her church, her state, and the brand of civilization she inherited running contrary to life itself. In HER world, children cannot exist without being shredded to pieces or dying of neglect. Is that real, or an illusion? Go on and climb into the daily life of abject poverty, of barren economic conditions, and find out for yourself just how hostile & contemptuous America is to maternity. Intimate partner violence & death statistics are consistently stacked against women in poverty, and none so oppressively as those who've said yes to life. Anytime the Vatican is ready to take the gag order off Catholic Charities, they're in a qualified position to provide exhaustive details about the nature of social dysfunctions inflicting itself upon maternity.
So being responsible for the life you made through your actions is punishment?
Responsibility = Punishment ?
You need to rethink that.
NO, YOU need to START thinking.
A person who has an abortion because they don't want the baby IS acting responsibly. YES, it CAN be a punishment to go through the next 20 years of taking care of someone they don't want!
But Anti-Choicers see forcing the woman to have the baby as punishment which they delight in.
They consider it punishment.
BECAUSE:
They think it's OK to have an abortion if the woman, or child, were forced to have sex.
But abortion is abortion. It's the same thing whether the woman enjoyed the sex or not.....THAT is the ONLY difference.
So making it illegal if the woman enjoyed the sex IS punisment for having enjoyed the sex.
A person who has an abortion because they don't want the baby IS acting responsibly. YES, it CAN be a punishment to go through the next 20 years of taking care of someone they don't want!
But Anti-Choicers see forcing the woman to have the baby as punishment which they delight in.
They consider it punishment.
BECAUSE:
They think it's OK to have an abortion if the woman, or child, were forced to have sex.
But abortion is abortion. It's the same thing whether the woman enjoyed the sex or not.....THAT is the ONLY difference.
So making it illegal if the woman enjoyed the sex IS punisment for having enjoyed the sex.
Killing = Being Responsible?
Being responsible:
Don't have sex until you are able to support the life you may create.
Protect the life you create.
If you are unable to provide for the baby, adoption is a responsible option.
Killing an innocent life for selfish reasons is not being responsible.
There are people waiting in line to adopt a child that meets certain criteria, but there are far more children who don't meet those criteria, who never get adopted. Trust me. I've worked with agencies whose entire focus is to try to get children adopted, who are considered "unwanted." It's incredibly heartbreaking.
Vulnerable populations are reliably subject to abuse/ neglect from individuals and groups who strategically install themselves in institutional settings. Not just normal infants or physically declining elderly. Not just the foster care system. Any disability a human struggles to cope with at any given life stage or degree of disability becomes blood in the water attraction for malevolent individuals. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_o...y_(criminology)
From an analysis of over 40,000 children in an American city Sullivan and Knutson (2000) found that disabled children were 3.4 times more likely to be abused or neglected. They were 3.8 times more likely to be neglected; 3.8 times more likely to be physically abused; 3.1 times more likely to be sexually abused and 3.9 more likely to be emotionally abused. Overall, 31% of the total disabled children in this research had been abused.
Homeless populations notoriously have 2 problems. Most of them are bipolar/ schizophrenic, and they're often targeted by criminals, which becomes an endless reinforced conditioned aversion to civilization. They're unwilling to go to homeless shelters as a result because it's legitimately dangerous for them to do so.
It is coincidental that cultures and parenting 'styles' that lean so heavily on corporeal punishments but ignore the source or root cause of the childs behavior are yielding high rates of adult mental illness? Study links physical punishment of kids to adult mental disorders
It's something of a chicken and egg argument, but... Aileen Wuornous, Susan Smith, and Andrea Yates untreated mental disorders (medical/ legal/ religious community's neglect at various stages in their lives) being grossly mismanaged by authoritarian abuses created their conditioned responses. None of the guardians tasked with their care stepped up to address what they were reacting to and instead demanded blind obedience to corrupt authority.
Predator mentalities are celebrated and rewarded in western culture led around by very sick paradigms originating in madison ave, but also reinforced by abusive theology claiming itself 'orthodox' that is more aptly defined as hijacking religion to service their cult practices. The overarching predatory mentality harms & corrupts all, not just disabled.
A person who has an abortion because they don't want the baby IS acting responsibly. YES, it CAN be a punishment to go through the next 20 years of taking care of someone they don't want!
But Anti-Choicers see forcing the woman to have the baby as punishment which they delight in.
They consider it punishment.
BECAUSE:
They think it's OK to have an abortion if the woman, or child, were forced to have sex.
But abortion is abortion. It's the same thing whether the woman enjoyed the sex or not.....THAT is the ONLY difference.
So making it illegal if the woman enjoyed the sex IS punisment for having enjoyed the sex.
There is no way on earth to express how offensive the emboldened comment above is. it is disgusting and no one in their right mind delights in harming people.
your logic is too moronic to comprehend.
Those of us who are PRO LIFE are so, because we believe in one simple idea. Protect innocent life.
It is no more complicated than that.
That does not mean we do not understand and appreciate the pain that a woman goes thru when she finds herself pregnant when it was not planned and desired for whatever reason.
For some women this is real agony and any attempt to suggest those of us committed to the protection of the innocent don’t empathize with that is beneath contempt.
I am opposed to abortion, even in the case of rape. While I certainly sympathize with the mother, the rape is already accomplished and not the fault of the child. The mother still has the responsibility to care for the child, which abortion would obviously violate.
Sympathy? Patronizing is more like it. You really ought to read the blaze article about creating a mechanical womb so that women opting for abortion can have their half of genetic material confiscated by law. Perhaps said mechanical womb can be installed in the rapists body, and legally oblige him to fiscal support in perpetuity. Any need or trouble their Frankenstein offspring create can default exclusively, with proprietary domain law securely in hand, to the sins of the father. What a bizarre world they're intent on creating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvdxer
It should be noted that rape is cited for only a very small portion of abortions. In addition, legalizing abortion in cases of rape paves the road for widespread legal abortion.
Rape is one thing. Coercion and confidence schemes/ manipulation is another. What kind of evil would poke holes in condoms? A sadist would. A meddlesome mother in law asserting her desire for grandchildren to vicariously justify a lifelong SAHM job would. What kind of male deliberately impregnates a female, only to shove her off a cliff after the child is born? Or this... Summer Inman Case Details Exposed In Affidavit | NBC 4i
Criminalizing abortion is only going to prohibit honest accounting that it exists, all it's causes for existence, and impede the meaningful help of intervention/ alternative choice promotion. If you haven't the stomach to face social ills, no amount of intellectually or philosophically shoving them under a rug in denial is ever going to make them cured.
Tvdxer, it would behoove you to start thinking in terms of how to teach your daughter to defend herself and defend her right to defend herself. The world you promote & create refuses to allow her (womankind) to exist, and concomitantly, her unborn child. Your world view socially, religiously, and legally herds your daughter into the terms and conditions of a brothel existence. I see nothing in you capable of honoring thy mother, to your own detriment, and to the detriment of your progeny. Your attitude is a display of male dysfunction defending their vices at the expense of all worthy of defense.
There is no way on earth to express how offensive the emboldened comment above is. it is disgusting and no one in their right mind delights in harming people.
your logic is too moronic to comprehend.
Who?Me?! doesn't use logic - her hate filled rants always are indecipherable. She doesn't rationally think about the issue - only throws out strawmen, engages in name calling, and levels false accusations.
I would ignore her if her diatribes weren't so instructive of the liberal mind.
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