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Old 07-24-2012, 03:04 PM
 
29,409 posts, read 21,933,801 times
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Who in their right mind would allow the government to install a gps tracker on their car? Well many use OnStar so I guess they don't mind anyway. Ya know just in case you lock your keys in the car and all or need to find the local medical weed outlet store.
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:07 PM
 
14,917 posts, read 13,056,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
But, that does nothing to collect from those who drive hybrid or electric cars. They still use the roads and their vehicles don't cause less wear and tear than cars that use gas. How do states close this gap?
I think we should be subsidizing those technologies anyway.
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:28 PM
 
77,855 posts, read 60,003,637 times
Reputation: 49236
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike0421 View Post
Officials approve study of SF Bay area mileage tax - San Jose Mercury News

This is an interesting idea being floated by some local officials. It is currently in the larval stage, but I can envision the day when roads are partially paid for this way, with advancements in technology. There are both economic and social ramifications, of course.



"Under a proposal still in its early stages, drivers could be required to install GPS-like odometers or other devices in their vehicles and pay from less than a penny to as much as a dime for every mile driven. The idea could take a decade or more to be launched.
Commission spokesman Randy Rentschler acknowledged such a concept ultimately could prove a hard sell with Bay Area residents, who would likely resist both the travel tax and the government-mandated tracking devices. "The last thing we're interested in is where you go and what you do," Rentschler said Thursday, after the vote. "What we're trying to do is get people to figure out a way to raise revenue that they could support."
1-Expensive to implement and maintain.
2-Additional govt. overhead needed to collect taxes instead of using an exisiting mechanism like gas tax.
3-Regressive tax hitting the middle class especially the hardest.

So, people are going to likely have to pay $500 in tax to put maybe $300 after expenses in the pocket of the state with already some of the highest taxes in the nation?

Additional problems:
1- cheating.
2- grossly invasive.

Hey, I have an idea....why don't you roll back prop 103 or whatever it was that is capping property taxes.
The gal that lives in the 50million mansion in the uber ritzy area is paying 8k a year in property taxes due to the freeze.

What happened to tax the rich more? SF have people with a net worth in the hundreds of millions if not billions paying virtually no property taxes on their mansions....and they are talking about tracking devices and new taxes? WTH is wrong with their leadership?
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:32 PM
 
77,855 posts, read 60,003,637 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkeconomist View Post
I feel like using GPS transponders is the wrong approach to the problem. It might make more sense to turn all highways in California in to tollways using wireless transponders. At least then, the data can be anonymized to only charge for how far you go without recording where you go.

And I'd only be in favor in such a scheme if it replaced the gas tax entirely.
Yeah but the state is hemorraghing money so what do you do?

Prop 103, the biggest fat-cat boondoggle in the history of the state and the "tax the rich" hypocrites stand silently.
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:35 PM
 
20,403 posts, read 12,302,469 times
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I have a plan for california.

STOP SPENDING MONEY YOU DONT HAVE
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:57 PM
 
14,893 posts, read 8,509,702 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox Terrier View Post
Well, I think you think wrong.

Partisan hyperbole ... sick of it.
And I think you think backwards. I'd say boot licking and thumb sucking far better defines a partisan mindset.

They want to tax you by the mile now, along with every breath ... you seem to love it, and that makes you smart? Sure!

Tax me more because I'm so smart!!! Regulate me more because I'm so smart!!! Monitor my every movement, because I'm so smart!!

Ya know, buy the time they're done with you, you're gonna be another Albert Einstein.
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Old 07-24-2012, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,384,723 times
Reputation: 4190
Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
Spending less to a California politician never seems to come up. They found the money for their hi speed train so why do they even need their little global warming vehicles anymore? Let em walk or ride the train. Tear the roads up and plant weed. All will be happy in la la land.
They have free train day occasionally. It actually does get people on the train. And lowers gas tax receipts. When gas went to $5 the first time in 2008 gas tax receipts went way down. They started talking about per-mile charges back then also.

The irony is they want everyone to use public transportation to save the planet, but when people use the system it cuts the funding that helps pay for the public transportation. That wouldn't be a problem if the costs weren't fixed. They never factor the calculus into the equation, and end up with shortfalls.

Same thing happens with cig taxes. Some guy decides that an extra 50 cents in cigarette tax will raise X billion dollars, and promptly spends the money. A certain percentage of smokers actually quit, and the revenue never fully materializes. I guess they don't look at the elasticity, or simply choose to ignore it.

I doubt the per-mile scheme will ever pass. They will just raise registration fees even more. They don't like that approach because it's regressive. And as one guy stated, "isn't fair to the old people who only drive a few thousand miles a year."
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Old 07-24-2012, 04:24 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,623 posts, read 19,064,576 times
Reputation: 21733
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike0421 View Post
It is currently in the larval stage,...
I like that.

From a Freudian perspective, what exactly where you thinking when you wrote that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike0421 View Post
... but I can envision the day when roads are partially paid for this way, with advancements in technology. There are both economic and social ramifications, of course.
We all knew this was coming. The State excise taxes on gasoline generates a lot of revenues...until people start operating more fuel-efficient vehicles, cutting down on gasoline consumption, and using public mass transit.

That reduces the revenues. States have to find a way to make that up somehow.

Still, having a GPS in your car? I can see that being open to all kinds of abuses.

Tickled...


Mircea
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Old 07-25-2012, 01:01 AM
 
14,893 posts, read 8,509,702 times
Reputation: 7322
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkeconomist View Post
I feel like using GPS transponders is the wrong approach to the problem. It might make more sense to turn all highways in California in to tollways using wireless transponders. At least then, the data can be anonymized to only charge for how far you go without recording where you go.

And I'd only be in favor in such a scheme if it replaced the gas tax entirely.
Ah yes ... death by lethal injection is much better than hanging.
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Old 07-25-2012, 01:16 AM
 
14,893 posts, read 8,509,702 times
Reputation: 7322
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn View Post
They have free train day occasionally. It actually does get people on the train. And lowers gas tax receipts. When gas went to $5 the first time in 2008 gas tax receipts went way down. They started talking about per-mile charges back then also.

The irony is they want everyone to use public transportation to save the planet, but when people use the system it cuts the funding that helps pay for the public transportation. That wouldn't be a problem if the costs weren't fixed. They never factor the calculus into the equation, and end up with shortfalls.

Same thing happens with cig taxes. Some guy decides that an extra 50 cents in cigarette tax will raise X billion dollars, and promptly spends the money. A certain percentage of smokers actually quit, and the revenue never fully materializes. I guess they don't look at the elasticity, or simply choose to ignore it.

I doubt the per-mile scheme will ever pass. They will just raise registration fees even more. They don't like that approach because it's regressive. And as one guy stated, "isn't fair to the old people who only drive a few thousand miles a year."
You and everyone else needs to get your heads out of the sand. This is just the next logical step up from toll roads. Put GPS in everyone's cars, monitor their travel in real time, and charge them by the mile. How is that any different than a toll road and a "smart tag" ? It's just a more intrusive method of controlling you. By the same token, it sets the stage for the next measure that is surely on the back burner. What prey tell could that be? Well, how about tracking you every where you go ... and every time that speedometer goes over the the posted speed limit ... you have a bill in your mailbox that will make that 10 cent a mile tax seem like chump change. And it is ... CHUMP change. But they wouldn't do that would they? Nooooo of course not. And they wouldn't ever think of having Gestapo Goons squeezing your testicles at the airport either .. right?

This level of denial is going to be the death of us all.
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