Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Eddie so now you have 2 full auto guns, 3 really since 2 were used at the same time in the cal bank robbery, and so this is rare with 3 guns... What are the stats on 3 guns in the USA ? Why not count the 1920's for grins, since the number will still be extremely small.
You need to face it, there is no full auto crime problem. The majority of gun crime is from wackos, and death by car or bath tub far exceed it.
I would question if you know anything about guns in a general way, as i sort have the idea you don't.
You probably don't know a K-98 from M1A1.
Another point you probably don't know the why of is that of the preferance our men in Afghanistan have for the M14.
I'm going to change the context to assault weapons, since that's what I had in mind when I wrote the thread, not strictly automatic weapons. And "knowing" about guns has nothing to do w/ this discussion. We're talking about illegal guns and how they get into the country. I'm only focusing on assault weapons b/c it's a small enough subset to support my point.
All the other points you brought up are irrelevant and just make you sound like a gun nut.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz
This seems to be a topic switch from 'automatic weapons' but nonetheless I'll bite. I'd guess that it's a combination of factors, starting with the fact that politicians get publicity when laws are passed, not so much when they are enforced. Secondly, there is not much revenue to be had in enforcing gun laws. Finally, running stings on black market gun sales could be dangerous duty for police. If you're a cop and got your big promotion to undercover work, would you rather sting the local strip club to see if the strippers are doing any illegal fondling of customers? Or set up a meeting with a local gang banger to see if you can get him to sell you a Glock?
There's a good article today about this very topic in my local paper, by lib columnist Danny Westneat. Worth a read.
Actually it is a switch b/c I had assault weapons in mind and just had the terms mixed up, but in the end, it doesn't change what my point is. Illegal guns start off legal, yet there's no way to trace the history of the gun between when it was found and when it was first sold. If police find a gun on the street, can they find out who bought the gun or are they just limited to knowing if that gun was reported stolen?
But that article highlights what I'm talking about on a broader gun control scale. At one point police found 3 guns, but only one was reported stolen. Where did the other 2 come from? If they were found in a car, the police could trace the VIN to everyone that owned that car. Why can't the same be done for guns?
WELL THEN i DOUBT WE CAN ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS AS NO HERE IS INFORMED WELL ENOUGH BY ANY OFFICALS TO KNOW WHAT GUNS HAVE ENTERED THE usa ILLEGALLY OR NOT.
hit caps not yelling. please excuse me. I am not a typist.
In used to own 3 Ak-47 class guns, but over winter and in hard times I sold one legally.. So i own 2. One is a SAR-1 the other a is the underfolder Yugo modle complete with a bayonett, and a grenade launcher. I took it in partial trade for a boat i sold. So both of these are legal, but you would prefer I don't own them.... That's too bad.
I own more than (25) 30 round mags, and several 5 rnd and 10 rnd mags, which can make these guns legal for hunting, and can make then as legal for reasons stated in the Declaration of Independance, The CONS, and Bill of Rights.
I could own and almost did a a civilian version o0f the M-4 but i decided i do not care for the locking device, which of copurse you know nothing about, but I do, and I won't have it. Other wise i would very much like to own a rifle like that for reasons of accuracy, but in .308 which is available.
In my state NH, I am legal to own full auto weapons as well, but their cost, the cost of ammo to feed them and the taxes to make purchase are prohibitive for my command of USD, so i have no real need of them anyway, but if money was no object i would own a few.
I am far more interested in flintlocks, and am as deadly with one of them as i am with any modern gun.
And still so far as I can tell there is no illegal assault weapons in the country.
Perhaps if you can define what you really are after I could help.
I( see you ask wutitiz, about lost and or stolen guns.... Unless he has worked behing the counter in a gun store it isn't likey he knows.
I have worked behind the counter of a gun store and so i do know.
The gun is ordered in to a store by legal means from a middle man, and not the maker directly. The gun is logged in on the shop books when it arrives and has been paid for. The gun sits as new on the shelf until a buyer buys is, and in NH that buyer passes NICS. The gun leaves the store with the new owner and the books log the gun out.
The new owner has supplied personal info about himself, his address, perhaps his SS number, and if he is a citizen. Also the form has the gun by name make and model plus the serial number.
NICS only gets the guys name and address and perhaps his SS number and the type of gun(s) he bought AS.....
Long gun for either a rifle or a shot gun.... hand gun for a revolver, and pistol for a semi auto hand gun like a Govt Model Colt.
NICS does not get the make model and or serial number ever, UNLESS the shop is busted for illegal something, the owners sells the shop or dies.
So in a crime once a weapon is discovered the police have the weapon and so have the serial number, and they go to the maker with the info, and the maker checks their records and send the cops to the middle man (A jobber) and the juobber sends the cops to the store where the store owner opens his books to search for the weapon and will discover the first owner.
The first owner will be checked on by the cops, and he had better have paper on who anmd where the gun was sold or if it was stolen..
I'm going to change the context to assault weapons, since that's what I had in mind when I wrote the thread, not strictly automatic weapons. And "knowing" about guns has nothing to do w/ this discussion. We're talking about illegal guns and how they get into the country. I'm only focusing on assault weapons b/c it's a small enough subset to support my point.
All the other points you brought up are irrelevant and just make you sound like a gun nut.
Actually it is a switch b/c I had assault weapons in mind and just had the terms mixed up, but in the end, it doesn't change what my point is. Illegal guns start off legal, yet there's no way to trace the history of the gun between when it was found and when it was first sold. If police find a gun on the street, can they find out who bought the gun or are they just limited to knowing if that gun was reported stolen?
But that article highlights what I'm talking about on a broader gun control scale. At one point police found 3 guns, but only one was reported stolen. Where did the other 2 come from? If they were found in a car, the police could trace the VIN to everyone that owned that car. Why can't the same be done for guns?
Yeah it's exactly as Mac said. The manufacturer and dealer have the records are are required to keep them by law. In many cases a trace is doubtless of little use since a gun might have changed hands several times on the black market before being impounded by police after being used in a crime. But if it's a case like the CO shooter (let's say he killed himself and had no ID on him) police could readily get the serial number and find out that it was purchased by Holmes at such & such gun shop on such & such date.
Yeah it's exactly as Mac said. The manufacturer and dealer have the records are are required to keep them by law. In many cases a trace is doubtless of little use since a gun might have changed hands several times on the black market before being impounded by police after being used in a crime. But if it's a case like the CO shooter (let's say he killed himself and had no ID on him) police could readily get the serial number and find out that it was purchased by Holmes at such & such gun shop on such & such date.
I am sorry I see now you did know....... It surprises me that gun buyers/owners often times thing NICS gets the make, model and serial numbers when they by a gun.
NICS Does Not get that info,, but it is recorded and kept in the FFL dealer's books... Only if the dealer gets busted for something, sell out, or dies do the BATFE get his books..
All NICS gets is hand gun for a revolver, pistol for a semi auto hand gun and long gun for either a shot gun or a rifle, concerning the gun of purchase.
The original question was: Where are all these illegal guns being used in crimes coming from?
The term "illegal guns" is an erroneous one. More often than not it is the transfer, possession, and/or use by the individual which is illegal.
This is the problem with assigning blame, in this case illegality, to the object (gun) rather than the individual (criminal).
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieB.Good
............Illegal guns start off legal, yet there's no way to trace the history of the gun between when it was found and when it was first sold. If police find a gun on the street, can they find out who bought the gun or are they just limited to knowing if that gun was reported stolen?
But that article highlights what I'm talking about on a broader gun control scale. At one point police found 3 guns, but only one was reported stolen. Where did the other 2 come from? If they were found in a car, the police could trace the VIN to everyone that owned that car. Why can't the same be done for guns?
Again with the car analogy!
Clue: registration & licensing.
You have no constitutionally affirmed right to keep and drive a motor vehicle. It is a priviledge. The government decided it could make money by taxing not only the vehicle but the introduction to it on the public streets and so licensing & registration were born.
Historically, every national gun registry in other countries has led to gun confiscation and the criminalization of gun-owners by governments. American gun owners will never tolerate the attempt to mandate a gun registry (see recently failed text of UN ATT) because history repeats itself.
Furthermore, would you tolerate a taxation upon every Constituionally affirmed right? Is taxation not in and of itself and infringement?
Zero automatic weapons came into the US legally after 1968.
Technically that is true but..... many thousands were brought in, converted, etc. after the GCA of 1968 and Reagan passed a machine gun amnesty in 1986 that grandfathered those into the "fully transferable" segment of the market. Nothing has been legally imported since 1986, although Class III, SOTs can manufacture dealer samples. I remember F/A Heckler & Koch trigger packs being available in the early-mid 80s and a lot of three-hole AK bring backs from the Vietnam era.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Ban 0's.........
