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Old 07-26-2012, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,200,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
I don't worry about every forseeable and unforseeable danger of every minute of every day. That seems like a very sad way to live. Do you take a gun to the bathroom with you or do you have a spare in there?

Nah - I keep a firearm in the nightstand by the bed. We have one we keep in the motor home and another in a holster that I would bring with me otherwise.

We do have some firearms that we hunt with and others we target shoot with. We enjoy meeting up with friends at a firing range and target shoot.

OBTW; the best way to be safe is to be aware of what is going on around you - be aware of your surroundings.
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Old 07-26-2012, 01:04 PM
 
20,421 posts, read 12,341,203 times
Reputation: 10207
Quote:
Originally Posted by imcurious View Post
Thank you for having the courage to post this. First of all, your opinion is especially well qualified because of your personal experience.

America is very gun-loving and Michael Moore has highlight this in his film (can't recall the name -senior moment!) . . . I do expect you will get a lot of flack from right-winged "patriots" - many of whom support the 2nd Amendment, come Hell or High water . . . and that is what they are waiting for . . .if a few dozen, hundred, or thousand are killed in the process, so be it (I would imagine they would think) . . .

You aren't going to get the Charleton Heston crowd to change their fervent stance any time soon, so indeed, the bullets will fly and the innocent people be damned!
It was "waiting for colombine" and it was full of lies and hyperbole.
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Old 07-26-2012, 01:09 PM
 
79,908 posts, read 44,075,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachgns View Post
I think what the OP expressed is consistent with what most people in other countries feel.

And a huge number of people in this country are xenophobic, fearing that the US may be like some other country. That, to them, is a bad thing.

Different countries, even different regions, have different customs and styles of living. Good or bad, the US is a much more gun oriented country than most of the rest of the world. The image of the "Wild West" is still alive and well. The Marlboro Man, Wyatt Earp, Annie Oakley all are still in our culture. Maybe Somalia has higher gun ownership raes than the US - I don't know if other countries do. You cannot change this way of life in years or even decades. As a good friend always says "It IS WHat It Is."
I left off around here last night and I haven't read all the replies so if I'm repeating what someone else already said, sorry.

Sweden has a higher rate of gun ownership.
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Old 07-26-2012, 07:58 PM
 
102 posts, read 166,752 times
Reputation: 114
No, I don't 'post and run', I have just been busy reading through the many replies to my OP. I guess I expected some of the vitriol but not so much personal insults (that I am an 'idiot'). Anyway, I think I now have a much better understanding of the situation with firearms in the USA. I recall one report soon after the Aurora shooting where someone (not sure who) said that perhaps the US will now look at mass shootings the same way as they look at natural disaters; something that just 'happens' from time to time. That to me is very sad. But it just seems to me, as an interested observor, that the USA must be so violent and paranoid that everyrone needs to be armed! If that's the way it is then that too is very sad. We certainly have our own problems with violent crime in Australia but not so bad that we feel that we have to be armed at all times.

Other reports after the Aurora shooting have suggested that had one of the cinema patrons been armed, he/she may have been able to bring the shootings to an end. Purely from a tactical point of view that to me seems absurb. You have a tear-gas filled darkened cinema, people running everywhere in panic and the perpetrator well armed and wearing body armour. Bit one-sided I should think! In my experience, anyone attempting to intervene, no matter how well-intentioned, would merely have added to the final tally.

In answer to the question posed above asking if the rate of firearm-related deaths has decreased since the Australian Government's gun by-back screen, the following information is contained in a paper prepared for the Royal Society of Medicine's by Simon Chapman in 2010:

"In the 13 years and eight months since the law reforms, there have been no mass shootings. While the rate of firearm homicide was reducing by an average of 3% per year prior to the law reforms, this increased to 7.5% per year after the introduction of the new laws, although this failed to reach statistical significance (P = 0.15) only because of the low power inherent in the small numbers involved Firearm-related suicides in men declined from 3.4 deaths per 100,000 person years in 1997 to 1.3 per 100,000 person years, representing a decline of 59.9%. The rate of all other suicides declined from 19.9 deaths per 100,000 person-years in 1997 to 15.0 per 100,000 person-years in 2005, representing a decline of 24.5%. The yearly change in firearm-related suicides in men was −8.7% (95% confidence interval [CI] −10.2% to −7.0%), and the yearly change in other suicides was −4.1% (95% CI −4.7% to −3.5%), less than half the rate of fall in firearm suicide."


So I guess the answer is yes, there has been a significant decline in firearm related deaths in Oz.

Good luck USA.
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Old 07-26-2012, 08:16 PM
 
102 posts, read 166,752 times
Reputation: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmund_Burke View Post
G'day mate. You realize the real issue is a justice system that is lenient on habitual criminals, a failure to address the drug issue, and no system in place to handle the mentally insane, right?

In Australia, there have been incidences of east Indian students being attacked at night by criminals, courtesy of knives. Nevermind the Aussie police not being sympathetic to these students safety, I imagine if they had a gun they wouldn't need the racist police.
Read this, you will see that Indian students were generally not specifically targetted because of their race but more for the opportunites presented to criminals. Overall, Indian students were less represented in crime victim figures that the general Australian population.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_Indians_in_Australia_controversy
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Old 07-26-2012, 08:19 PM
 
15,913 posts, read 20,158,381 times
Reputation: 7693
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCCCB View Post
If we have things rising in crime it is a combination of:

Bad economy.
Not prosecuting and keeping bad guys behind the bars.
Refusal to get rid of all the illegals (which have brought lots of violent gang members with them).

We have various government entities unwilling to do their job.
I would add not using the death penalty more liberally....
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Old 07-26-2012, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Texas State Fair
8,560 posts, read 11,193,937 times
Reputation: 4257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachgns View Post
I think what the OP expressed is consistent with what most people in other countries feel.

And a huge number of people in this country are xenophobic, fearing that the US may be like some other country. That, to them, is a bad thing.

Different countries, even different regions, have different customs and styles of living. Good or bad, the US is a much more gun oriented country than most of the rest of the world. The image of the "Wild West" is still alive and well. The Marlboro Man, Wyatt Earp, Annie Oakley all are still in our culture. Maybe Somalia has higher gun ownership raes than the US - I don't know if other countries do. You cannot change this way of life in years or even decades. As a good friend always says "It IS WHat It Is."
Wow! ! ! And I thought the U.S. was an Constitutionally oriented country. Just has some 'Girls gone Wild', with really big bazookas.
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:56 PM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,750,280 times
Reputation: 20030
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
This begs the question. Why do you guys feel the need to have guns? If an intruder comes into your home why don't you just throw him out the window? He'd be just as dead as if you shot him.........I mean wouldn't he?
alright, lets say bad guy breaks into your home, you dont have a gun but he does. how easy is it going to be for you to toss said bad guy out the window after he has pumped several rounds into your chest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmund_Burke View Post
G'day mate. You realize the real issue is a justice system that is lenient on habitual criminals, a failure to address the drug issue, and no system in place to handle the mentally insane, right?

In Australia, there have been incidences of east Indian students being attacked at night by criminals, courtesy of knives. Nevermind the Aussie police not being sympathetic to these students safety, I imagine if they had a gun they wouldn't need the racist police.
very well said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip View Post
The Constitution of the United States was specifically authored to protect the rights of the individual from the tyranny of the majority.

The individual is the basic unit who can make the best decisions for their life, not the government. By empowering the citizens of the United States to bear arms and remove a tyrannical government if necessary, the right to bear arms was embedded in our most precious document which enumerates the basic human rights of the individual.

A government that fears it's citizens is a Republic, when a citizen fears the goverment, that is tyranny.
In this country, the power lies with the people, not the government. The citizens decide who will stay in office, and who will be fired.

We elect officials to serve as representatives of our will, so protection of the Constitution should be job 1.
Sometimes we make a mistake and elect a president with no respect for our country, our people, our way of life, our Constitution and the common values that unite a nation. We will correct that mistake in November.

The right of self determination and self reliance are the foundation of what built this country. We didn't need the crown to tell us what when to take a dump or wipe our noses. If we succeed or fail it is because of our own sweat and intelligence, hard work and sacrifice, not because some government lacky allows it in return for favors or bribes.

We work around our government restrictions because all goverment does well is screw things up.

A Militia is a group of citizens who band together to protect themselves and their country from the overreaching grasp of politicians. Well organized means shared values and commitment to our country and our Constitution. We are all members of the militia because it is the duty of all citizens to protect their country from all enemies, foreign or domestic.

The Second Amendment is the one that gives people the final say in how our country is run. We don't have a monarchy, we have employees who work for us, (or are supposed to). The Second Amendment assures the right to free speech, to freedom of assembly, for the right to confront any accuser, for the right to worship as we choose, that we can decide our own destiny based on our will, our abilities, our talents, and our desire to make a better life for ourselves without the goverment stealing our work to redistribute to those who refuse to work.

Firearms in the hands of private citizens are power. The power to protect our homes, the power to stand up to the lawless, the power to topple tyrants and dictators.

I have been to Austrailia, and it is a great place to drink beer, chase girls, lie on the sand and watch the ocean.
I perfer a place where you work, you strive, you overcome, where you hold your destiny in your own hands for better or worse, and for the moment, you can enjoy the fruits of your labor.

The citizens aren't worse off because of firearms, they are worse off when they have to fight the gangs, the goverment, and in some cases law enforcement to try and hold onto rights that are guarenteed by our Constitution.

You ask why we need guns? It isn't because we fear, it is because we fear NOTHING. We can overcome any obstical, any hardship, any trial or tribulation because we stand as Free Men and Women, ready to take up arms to protect the land we love.

With a firearm, a frail 80 year old woman can take out a gangbanger.
With a firearm, a child can stop a molester
With a firearm, a disabled person can stop a rapist.
With a firearm, a citizen can save this country.

That is why we have guns.

God didn't make men equal, Colonel Colt did.
excellent post!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatSwissGuy View Post
While I absolutly agree that guns don't kill people, it seems like American society isn't responisble enough to own guns. America has a serious violence problem.



I have no idea why abortion would lead to more homicides. And I'm a 100% sure that removing god from society isn't the reason for your violence problem. Out of all developed nations America is the most religious and the most violent one. And Europeans watch American movies and tv shows and play American video games as well. So this can't be the reason either. You also have the highest rate of incarcerated people in the whole world (!) and are the only western country that still executes criminals! You don't coddle them at all!
when you allow abortions on demand, it cheapens human life. guy a girl get together, girl gets pregnant, but she doesnt want the baby, and neither does the guy. in the old days before abortion on demand was available, they would end up either married, or the girl would give the baby up for adoption. these days they just head down to the abortion clinic and have it removed as if it were a benign tumor instead of a human life. and we DO coddle criminals. yes we do execute some, but it takes years to get them to the execution chamber, what with all the appeals, new trials, new sentencing hearings, groups against the death penalty trying to get governors to commute the sentence to life without parole, etc. the average person sits on death row for up to 25 years before sentence is finally carried out.

Quote:
Violence just seems to be a part of American culture. We in Switzerland have one of the highest rates of gun ownership in the world (just like the US) and we have a real militia army. Every Swiss male has to undergo military training and most of us keep their service rifle/pistol after completion of military service. But we have a different mindset than Americans. For example: Swiss people would never use their gun to threaten or even kill a burglar or thief. Instead we would lock our door, call the police and maybe keep our gun ready (just in case). Why risk your life for something like a car or a computer if insurance pays for it anyway? And because of this mindset criminals, drug addicts etc. in Switzerland are generally unarmed and usually non violent. This way everybody wins: law abiding citizens don’t get hurt, the criminals don’t get hurt and the police don’t get shot at.

You don't really need to change your gun laws, you need to change your mindset!
i agree we need to change our mindset, the problem is that the progressives want to eliminate the death penalty, reduce the time criminals are sentenced to for violent crimes, want to end prison overcrowding, etc. and while some of these things are nice, it creates an environment where by criminals can commit crimes, get a slap on the wrist, then when they get out commit more crimes, get another slap on the wrist, etc. in the mean time criminal activity costs society billions each year. imagine if that money could go to other things, instead of law abiding citizens paying for the sins of the criminal element in this country. and dont forget that criminals get free health care, food, housing, cable tv, porn magazines, etc. again because we CODDLE criminals in this country. most of the criminals in this country would end their criminal activity if they had to face say a turkish prison, or a siberian gulag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tek_Freek View Post
Specious argument. Guns (held by people - since that point is sooooo important) kill people from a DISTANCE. Try killing someone in a drive by with a knife or a bat from 50 feet away. Throwing that knife or bat at a crowd or a store window will get you little result without a lot of luck. Shooting a dozen bullets will have a much greater chance of injury or death.

Killing up close requires a personal commitment. It's a visceral, emotionally charged moment. Killing from 10 feet away using a gun is entirely different and requires much less emotion and commitment.
you failed to understand my argument. and that is guns dont kill people, people kill people, and it doesnt matter what tool they use to do it with. so lets say we do in fact eliminate ALL guns around the world. now no one has a firearm of any kind, not even the military. it is just as easy to kill someone with a knife, and in fact it is much quieter to do so. or you can run your car into a large group of people and kill large numbers. or you can make a variety of bombs that would also kill large numbers of people.

again my point is that ANY tool can be misused, and they ALL require a human agency to make them work.
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Old 07-27-2012, 01:19 AM
 
Location: Switzerland
56 posts, read 41,709 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
when you allow abortions on demand, it cheapens human life. guy a girl get together, girl gets pregnant, but she doesnt want the baby, and neither does the guy. in the old days before abortion on demand was available, they would end up either married, or the girl would give the baby up for adoption. these days they just head down to the abortion clinic and have it removed as if it were a benign tumor instead of a human life.
Well, if you are pro-life and view abortion as murder then your right from your point of view. But I'm pro-choice so let's just agree to disagree.



Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
and we DO coddle criminals. yes we do execute some, but it takes years to get them to the execution chamber, what with all the appeals, new trials, new sentencing hearings, groups against the death penalty trying to get governors to commute the sentence to life without parole, etc. the average person sits on death row for up to 25 years before sentence is finally carried out.
If you want to see what "coddling criminals" really means then take a look at the Swiss justice system... At least compared to other western democracies you don't coddle them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
i agree we need to change our mindset, the problem is that the progressives want to eliminate the death penalty, reduce the time criminals are sentenced to for violent crimes, want to end prison overcrowding, etc. and while some of these things are nice, it creates an environment where by criminals can commit crimes, get a slap on the wrist, then when they get out commit more crimes, get another slap on the wrist, etc. in the mean time criminal activity costs society billions each year. imagine if that money could go to other things, instead of law abiding citizens paying for the sins of the criminal element in this country. and dont forget that criminals get free health care, food, housing, cable tv, porn magazines, etc. again because we CODDLE criminals in this country. most of the criminals in this country would end their criminal activity if they had to face say a turkish prison, or a siberian gulag.
I would really like to agree with you but I don't think that the world works this way. I used to think like you and thought that harder punishment would automatically lead to less crime, but statistically speaking we are probably wrong on this. However I am still in favor of the death penalty in very extreme cases and I really want longer prison sentences and less luxurious prisons for violent criminals. But I don't have much success when trying to convince other Swiss people. I think the way you Americans treat violent criminals is way better than ours. But on the other hand your approach to victimless crimes (especially drug use and such) is just creating even more problems.
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Old 07-27-2012, 01:41 AM
 
Location: Lost in Texas
9,827 posts, read 6,923,975 times
Reputation: 3415
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
As a person who has a concealed carry permit, I feel the same way. I only got it because my husband was afraid of me being home with the kids when he was out of town. I am just not a scary person and don't frighten easily. I used to be but it is something that I chose to purge from myself. I don't understand why people feel the need to carry a gun all the time. I think it has to do with them wanting to feel important or respected. But I don't respect people who are afraid of everything or who want to feel important just because of a material item they possess. I also feel sorry for them. My gun is at home and accessible if someone breaks in the house.

I have a co-worker that carries a gun all the time. Even though I joke with him about it, I pity him in that he is so afraid of the world that he sees it necessary to carry around a pistol all the time.
This describes me pretty well. I have a concealed carry permit as well; however, I don't ever remember carrying one. I do have an accessible gun at home and a large dog.[/quote]

I'm going to add a little levity to your comments..
A woman in Texas was pulled over by the DPS. (Department of Public Safety) Upon arriving at her door, she hands the officer her license as well as her CHL. The officer asks ma'am do you have your firearm in your vehicle? She replies... Well officer, I have a .357 in the console, I have a 12 gauge shotgun under the back seat, and I have an AK-47 in the trunk... The shocked officer asks, well ma'am what on earth are you afraid of? She said.. "Not a damn thing."
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