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Old 08-03-2012, 03:34 PM
 
Location: West Egg
2,160 posts, read 1,948,812 times
Reputation: 1297

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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterboy7375 View Post
Acording to your chart it would pass. So why is the OP so concerned that it should not be on the ballot?
Ask the OP.

But here's a clue -- these are national polls, and there is no mechanism for a national referendum.

As for states, it's on the ballot in four of them in November. All the data suggests it (ie, legalization) will pass in Maine, Maryland and Washington, while the data suggests that Minnesota is a toss-up (in MN the question is negative, not positive -- and if it fails it simply would not codify the current statutory ban in the state constitution).

Minor quibble:
According to the chart I posted, which lists all of the national polls on the issue to date through May of this year, it would be more likely than not to pass. But the trend is obvious.
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,188,856 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd View Post
The whole debate about whether gays should or should not be able to get married shouldn't be placed in the hands of people to vote. Before my Christian posters chew me out for making this claim, I agree with the biblical definition of marriage, which is between a man and a woman. But with that said, the United States of America, as many Christians want to blindly believe is not a Christian country. Nor is it a country where any one's religious opinions should be the law of the land when it violates a person's civil rights. The fact that gay people can't get married is a violation if their civil rights, and propositions should not be placed on ballots for people to vote for or against it when eventually people for or against it challenge that same proposition. Eventually the US Supreme Court will rule on gay marriage anyway, and no matter what I or anyone thinks about it, it will become the law of the land---ending this whole debate at least on the ballot.
I wasn't real happy when my state had people vote about adding prohibition of gay marriage to our constitution, but I damned sure voted yes on the ballot.
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,188,856 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale View Post
That's fine. But thank goodness we have a judicial branch of government to review the laws we pass.
How much longer will we have that judicial branch to look out for us if Obama wins this fall, that is if he allows us to vote.
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,188,856 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gallowsCalibrator View Post
Neither one if it's put to vote.

Which is why civil rights should never be put to votes.

Tyranny of the majority.
Have you managed to determine who among the majority think that gay marriage is a civil right? I ask this because I don't think either the Supreme Court or the majority have gone along with gays in making their rights the same as blacks were in the 50s. Women's rights have been accepted, as they should have been, and the civil rights of blacks were won but I don't really believe that gaydom is a civil right.
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:54 PM
 
Location: West Egg
2,160 posts, read 1,948,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
Have you managed to determine who among the majority think that gay marriage is a civil right? I ask this because I don't think either the Supreme Court or the majority have gone along with gays in making their rights the same as blacks were in the 50s. Women's rights have been accepted, as they should have been, and the civil rights of blacks were won but I don't really believe that gaydom is a civil right.
According to Justice Scalia, the majority opinion in Lawrence v. Texas (2003) is sufficient precedent for nullifying state laws banning same-sex marriage. He went on and on about this in his dissent.

More to the point, however-- if marriage is a right (and it is well-established by the United States Supreme Court that it is) then the state has to advance a compelling reason not to allow certain types of marriage between consenting adults. And when your ilk appears before a court, they are having hard times coming up with compelling reasons that make sense.
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,188,856 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterboy7375 View Post
Funny how some want to quiet the voice of the people if the voice is not one they want to hear.
If polls showed a 60% chance of it passing they would be begging for it to be on the ballot.
You just said the final answer to this argument. Not many from the gay way of thought or most leaners will agree with you but you have spoken the truth as it exists.
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:56 PM
 
Location: a bar
2,712 posts, read 6,087,005 times
Reputation: 2954
Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
Have you managed to determine who among the majority think that gay marriage is a civil right? I ask this because I don't think either the Supreme Court or the majority have gone along with gays in making their rights the same as blacks were in the 50s. Women's rights have been accepted, as they should have been, and the civil rights of blacks were won but I don't really believe that gaydom is a civil right.
Did they just de-thaw you?
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,188,856 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Onions View Post
Indeed, it is glaringly obvious which side has a better chance of winning in the long run nationally, and in the short term in several states and the medium term (the next 2-3 years in several more states).


fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/09/support-for-gay-marriage-outweighs-opposition-in-polls/
When will you manage to convince the gay community that they must get this question put up to a vote? Since you have the numbers necessary I would think that someone would be trying to do this.
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Old 08-03-2012, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,188,856 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Onions View Post
According to Justice Scalia, the majority opinion in Lawrence v. Texas (2003) is sufficient precedent for nullifying state laws banning same-sex marriage. He went on and on about this in his dissent.

More to the point, however-- if marriage is a right (and it is well-established by the United States Supreme Court that it is) then the state has to advance a compelling reason not to allow certain types of marriage between consenting adults. And when your ilk appears before a court, they are having hard times coming up with compelling reasons that make sense.
Did you notice that the Scala opinion you quoted so happily happened to be from the minority side of the Court? If not, then why isn't his thinking about Obamacare, also from the minority, given much support by you and your people. I guess it depends on what the topic is when the minority is talking.
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Old 08-03-2012, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,188,856 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Clavin View Post
Did they just de-thaw you?
Would de-thaw be like unthaw? I don't understand your question. What bar are you in today?
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