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Old 08-10-2012, 09:12 PM
 
72,825 posts, read 62,174,096 times
Reputation: 21777

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmund_Burke View Post
The black underclass equals the white underclass in most cases, that's why the south has the bulk of welfare recipients and the racial gap is smallest in that region......culture matters. Asians run the full gamut, but it's a percentage game and the Asians shine the brightest up to the point that certain powers thy be ignore them out for agenda sake.
Interesting you mention that. Alot of the worst traits that have been found in the Black underclass have also been found among the Southern White underclass. Africans, on the other hand, often come to this country and do very well. Culture does matter. You also have to ask where that culture comes from. The worst traits among the Black underclass can be traced back to the underclass of the South. The worst parts of Southern culture was where alot of this came about.

Let's take one example. The "Honor Culture" is one thing to think about. There has been alot of killing that has taken place in the African-American community, some of it over being "dissed". This kind of behavior has existed in the Deep South among some Whites. Duels were very common in the South during the 19th century. If someone felt their honor was insulted, he might feel he has to act in a violent manner, mainly killing.

Culture of Honor

 
Old 08-10-2012, 09:53 PM
 
Location: North America
5,960 posts, read 5,527,422 times
Reputation: 1951
Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy View Post
The fact that you brazenly trivialize the full impact of the level of obstacles that Black people faced in this country tells me that you are just plain unwilling to see any other viewpoint except the one that you have created. My parents grew up in the segregated south so the answer is yes, there are many people alive today who lived through the days when White men could (and did) murder a young Black boy for whislting at a White woman, when White adults yelled "****** go home" to Black children just trying to get an education, and when the KKK bombed a church killing four little Black girls in Alabama in 1963

And we actually only have to go back to 1998 for the lynching of James Byrd in Jasper, Texas


Also, you have failed to understand that the act of voicing concern about obstacles that one must overcome and the act of overcoming those obstacles is not an issue of "either/or". One can do both.

Do you honestly believe that just because a Black person excels academically, pursues higher education, earns an upper middle income living (or higher), and posesses all of the earmarks of a wealthy, successful person that they no longer experience prejudice, bigotry, racism and discrimination? And do you honestly believe that the sucessful Black person never discusses the racial discrimination that they encounter?

Lastly, Asians and Hispanics have been able to (1) take advantage of the civil rights gains that were bought and paid for with Black blood, sweat and tears and (2) they have also taken up the "model minority" mantra in order to not be placed on the bottom rung themselves.
How can I (while discussing African-Americans in 2012) "trivialize" the horrors that African-Americans experienced 50 to 100 years ago. That makes no sense.

If I say someone is a whining, crybaby in 2012 that in no way, shape or form is an opinion of the behaviors of someone who lived 100 years ago.

I am still waiting for someone to DIRECTLY LINK a horrible 1937 lynching of an African-American man in Alabama to a flash mob robbery of a convenience store in Los Angeles in 2012. (Just to use an example).

If you're going to bring up sick events from a terrible past you just can't use some ghostly, meta feeling of "social injustice" to justify current misbehavior.

LINK THEM!!

Also, please explain why some (not all) African-Americans absolutely refuse to understand that blacks do not own a patent on past injustice. Slavery is thousands of years old and every successful person in the U.S. (including African immigrants) can be linked to some horrible persecution in the past.


Even Mitt Romney.
 
Old 08-10-2012, 10:01 PM
 
Location: North America
5,960 posts, read 5,527,422 times
Reputation: 1951
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSykes View Post
Your views actually mirror his in many ways. Not to mention that the "non-sequitir" in question happened to merit tacit approval on your part. I guess that places you in the troll department as well.
Nope. You can't say someone's views match another person's views without evidence.

"Tacit approval" is your inference.

You are participating in that favorite liberal pastime...

Magical thinking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Old 08-10-2012, 10:50 PM
 
Location: La lune et les étoiles
18,258 posts, read 22,456,966 times
Reputation: 19593
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
How can I (while discussing African-Americans in 2012) "trivialize" the horrors that African-Americans experienced 50 to 100 years ago. That makes no sense.

If I say someone is a whining, crybaby in 2012 that in no way, shape or form is an opinion of the behaviors of someone who lived 100 years ago.

I am still waiting for someone to DIRECTLY LINK a horrible 1937 lynching of an African-American man in Alabama to a flash mob robbery of a convenience store in Los Angeles in 2012. (Just to use an example).

If you're going to bring up sick events from a terrible past you just can't use some ghostly, meta feeling of "social injustice" to justify current misbehavior.

LINK THEM!!

Also, please explain why some (not all) African-Americans absolutely refuse to understand that blacks do not own a patent on past injustice. Slavery is thousands of years old and every successful person in the U.S. (including African immigrants) can be linked to some horrible persecution in the past.


Even Mitt Romney.

Please quote me in any post where I have justified anyone's bad behavior....(waiting)

Again, you have created the narrative in your own head that you want to believe based solely on the fact that I am Black...and it is not rooted in what I have posted in any measure.

You are ruled by your own personal bias on the issue and are not open to anything that deviates from your prejudiced point of view.
 
Old 08-10-2012, 11:48 PM
 
Location: Metro DC area
4,520 posts, read 4,194,760 times
Reputation: 1289
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
How can I (while discussing African-Americans in 2012) "trivialize" the horrors that African-Americans experienced 50 to 100 years ago. That makes no sense.

If I say someone is a whining, crybaby in 2012 that in no way, shape or form is an opinion of the behaviors of someone who lived 100 years ago.

I am still waiting for someone to DIRECTLY LINK a horrible 1937 lynching of an African-American man in Alabama to a flash mob robbery of a convenience store in Los Angeles in 2012. (Just to use an example).

If you're going to bring up sick events from a terrible past you just can't use some ghostly, meta feeling of "social injustice" to justify current misbehavior.

LINK THEM!!

Also, please explain why some (not all) African-Americans absolutely refuse to understand that blacks do not own a patent on past injustice. Slavery is thousands of years old and every successful person in the U.S. (including African immigrants) can be linked to some horrible persecution in the past.


Even Mitt Romney.
Are you disputing that (besides the Native Americans) African-Americans received a "raw deal" in the US?

You say slavery was hundreds of years ago and I agree. No one living today had to face those horrible injustices. But what about Jim Crow? Do you think the effects of Jim Crow ended with the passing of the Civil Rights Movement? If so, you don't accurately understand cause and effect.

BTW, I would go a step further and say that if racism had TRULY died with the 13th Amendment, things would be a lot different in the US. The years following emancipation, followed by the injustices of Jim Crow (usually perpetrated by police officers, judges, etc) has caused a lot of distrust between some blacks and "the govt/law".
 
Old 08-11-2012, 05:50 AM
 
10,839 posts, read 14,643,028 times
Reputation: 7872
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocLot View Post


The Asian population in the US is not representative of all Asians. It stands to reason that the best, brightest and most-hard working will find their way to America. Your theory would hold water if Asians excelled at home, as well as they do in the US.
I was mostly talking about Asian Americans.

Asians in Asia may not do as well due to the countries they are in. I am sure if you are transported to Vietnam you won't be doing nearly as good as you are now.

Maybe you can compare with Asians in Asian countries with similar system and per capta GDP: Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, South Korea for example.

Asians have been living in American for generations and I don't buy this "Asians in American are better in general than those in Asian" any more. There are definitely things white Americans should learn from the Asians.
 
Old 08-11-2012, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Bayou City
3,017 posts, read 5,195,555 times
Reputation: 2546
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
Nope. You can't say someone's views match another person's views without evidence.

"Tacit approval" is your inference.

You are participating in that favorite liberal pastime...

Magical thinking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Is the inference innacurate? Do you disagree with the poster's remark?
 
Old 08-11-2012, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Kūkiʻo, HI & Manhattan Beach, CA
2,624 posts, read 7,230,856 times
Reputation: 2416
Quote:
Originally Posted by meh_whatever View Post
This thread is hilariously bizarre.
I agree.

So far, folks have discussed the impact slavery within the African American community, the Holocaust, atomic bombings, Chinese American gangs, railroads, the homeless, higher education, Clarence Thomas, Gabrielle Douglas, Mitt Romney, Barack Obama, and a myriad of other things in attempts to explain why "Asian American unemployment is very low."

Unfortunately, the aggregate unemployment statistics from the Department of Labor that the OP cited tends to hide a few things when it comes to Asian Americans, such as ethnic group disparities, educational disparities, gender and age disparities, variations by state and locality, etc. For instance, the Japanese American unemployment rate in 2011 was 4.3 percent, while the Pilipino American unemployment rate in 2011 was 8.5 percent, and the "Other Asian" (Cambodian, Laotian, Thai, Indonesian, etc.) unemployment rate in 2011 was 9.6 percent. For reference, the "Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander" unemployment rate in 2011 was 10.4 percent.
The Asian American Pacific Islander Labor Market During the Recovery
DOL Special Reports - The Asian-American Labor Force in the Recovery
Unemployment Rates for States
Demographics of Asian Americans

In a report entitled "Unfairly disadvantaged? Asian Americans and Unemployment During and After the Great Recession (2007–10)", Marlene Kim (a University of Massachusetts economics professor) concludes:
Quote:
Although Asian Americans have lower-than-average unemployment rates, Asian Americans with bachelor’s or advanced degrees are more likely to be unemployed than white workers with similar education levels. Since Asian Americans with at least a bachelor’s degree make up more than half of the Asian American labor force, the majority of Asian American workers are unfairly disadvantaged relative to similarly educated whites.
Since folks like to discuss African Americans in this thread, in 2011 the unemployment rate for African Americans with at least a Bachelor's degree was 7.1 percent. And, for African Americans in Utah, the unemployment rate in 2011 was mere 2.5 percent.
DOL Special Reports - The African-American Labor Force in the Recovery
 
Old 08-11-2012, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
28,226 posts, read 36,725,638 times
Reputation: 28561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonah K View Post
I agree.

So far, folks have discussed the impact slavery within the African American community, the Holocaust, atomic bombings, Chinese American gangs, railroads, the homeless, higher education, Clarence Thomas, Gabrielle Douglas, Mitt Romney, Barack Obama, and a myriad of other things in attempts to explain why "Asian American unemployment is very low."

Unfortunately, the aggregate unemployment statistics from the Department of Labor that the OP cited tends to hide a few things when it comes to Asian Americans, such as ethnic group disparities, educational disparities, gender and age disparities, variations by state and locality, etc. For instance, the Japanese American unemployment rate in 2011 was 4.3 percent, while the Pilipino American unemployment rate in 2011 was 8.5 percent, and the "Other Asian" (Cambodian, Laotian, Thai, Indonesian, etc.) unemployment rate in 2011 was 9.6 percent. For reference, the "Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander" unemployment rate in 2011 was 10.4 percent.
The Asian American Pacific Islander Labor Market During the Recovery
DOL Special Reports - The Asian-American Labor Force in the Recovery
Unemployment Rates for States
Demographics of Asian Americans

In a report entitled "Unfairly disadvantaged? Asian Americans and Unemployment During and After the Great Recession (2007–10)", Marlene Kim (a University of Massachusetts economics professor) concludes:


Since folks like to discuss African Americans in this thread, in 2011 the unemployment rate for African Americans with at least a Bachelor's degree was 7.1 percent. And, for African Americans in Utah, the unemployment rate in 2011 was mere 2.5 percent.
DOL Special Reports - The African-American Labor Force in the Recovery
Great stats. The model minority myth just refuses to die.
 
Old 08-11-2012, 04:14 PM
 
Location: North America
5,960 posts, read 5,527,422 times
Reputation: 1951
Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy View Post
Please quote me in any post where I have justified anyone's bad behavior....(waiting)

Again, you have created the narrative in your own head that you want to believe based solely on the fact that I am Black...and it is not rooted in what I have posted in any measure.

You are ruled by your own personal bias on the issue and are not open to anything that deviates from your prejudiced point of view.
Wait no longer...

Quote:
The fact that you brazenly trivialize the full impact of the level of obstacles that Black people faced in this country tells me that you are just plain unwilling to see any other viewpoint except the one that you have created.
When you write "obstacles" you are imagining something that gets in the way.

In the way of what?

Making the right decisions in life in 2012? I can see if this were 1923 in Tennessee but...

All I'd like to know is why history is brought up constantly by blacks when non-blacks are talking about today's problems?

I have never heard a Jew complain that the reason they are underrepresented in the NBA is the holocaust.

I have never heard a Japanese person complain that the reason they are underrepresented in the pages of Rolling Stone magazine is because of Hiroshima.

African-Americans (the only people who've I seen PRIMARILY identify themselves with a hyphen instead of only during specific cultural events the way Italian-Americans or Greek-Americans do...but anyway) seem to be the only ethnic group who claim that distance historical injustices are DIRECTLY related to mass underachievement within their ranks today.

Don't be mad at me for speaking the truth.
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